They do this every year, it's a faux shortage simply to create demand. Two more events to come yet before I would even begin to consider a purchase i.e. Pixel launch and OnePlus both in October. It always pays to keep your options open.
Apple Event - Wednesday, September 12
- Thread starter Daaaavvveee
- Start date
They do this every year, it's a faux shortage simply to create demand. Two more events to come yet before I would even begin to consider a purchase i.e. Pixel launch and OnePlus both in October. It always pays to keep your options open.
I get the faux shortage principle, was just confused that in this case, the shortage only applies to the max model.
Associate
- Joined
- 7 Sep 2014
- Posts
- 1,160
So you're asking me, to do the job of 123,000 Apple employees, and tell them how to innovate? Thanks for the vote of confidence, but really it needs to come from Apple themselves.
What I'm saying is that there was a time when Apple produced products that changed the way we use technology, and the premium price was well worth it, the original iPod, the 2005-ish OSX etc, but today that innovation just isnt there anymore, but the premium prices are. When a company has a proper innovative leader (E.g. Musk at Tesla, Jobs at Apple) the products they produce are often game changing (albeit risky), when you lose that type of leader you end up with corporate folks toning down the innovation and playing safer cards (just like these new iphones). What did I expect Apple to do? Give me something new, something exciting, something that changes the way I use technology, is it a big ask? Of course, but the $1 Tn they have to spend and the 123,000 staff they have can do it, if they just live a little less corporately.
I think Apple has been innovating, just not so much with the phone. I think the phone technology has basically matured now, to the point where it's much harder to do something truly revolutionary — much like the iMac and Laptops. No one is decrying Apple for not reinventing the desktop computer on a yearly basis, we're just happy if they bring out a faster processor, sharper screen, better GPU etc (see the similarity to the phones).
When the first iPhone came out it was a game changer and they were able to build on it quite impressively during the first few years. Now that phone tech in general has matured, the big innovations are few and far between.
To my mind, AirPods and the Apple Watch are two typical ‘Apple’ products that have raised the bar for those genres in recent years. We're seeing a similar level of progression with the Apple Watch that we saw with the early iPhones, but no doubt this will slow. Some may even suggest that the jump from the S3 to S4 Watch isn't that impressive, but then it's a much more restrictive form factor than even the iPhone, so the potential for innovation is limited.
Then there are the other areas where Apple have been focusing like the HomePod. While it may be seen as a bit of a flop, it has clearly taken up a lot of R&D, and if they don't decide to phase it out, they will no doubt invest more time and effort into the HP2/3/4 which may 'do an iPod' and change the landscape of smart speakers.
I do get the feeling that Apple has slipped a bit since Jobs died — they've made some questionable decisions both in terms of hardware and software, UI and UX, but who knows whether that's just coincidence or genuinely due to his lack of input.
As someone said before (either earlier in this thread or in one of the X Poll threads) it sort of feels like Apple brought out this year's phone a year early. If they'd iterated the 8 into a 9 last year, and then released the Xs as the X this year, I think people would be more impressed (although they would have no doubt bemoaned the lack of innovation last year with a 'boring' jump from 8 to 9 — so they can't ever really win).
TL;DR — I think you're expectations for innovation in a mature and saturated market are too high.
The home pod isn’t really a flop either it owns almost all of the $200+ smart speaker market.
70% of all smart speakers sold over $200 are a home pod which equates to 6% of shipments but more importantly 16% of the revenue for the whole market.
70% of all smart speakers sold over $200 are a home pod which equates to 6% of shipments but more importantly 16% of the revenue for the whole market.
Interesting, I didn’t realise that.
I watched a few reviews when it first came out that said it sounded good but the smart features were way behind Alexa and Google Home, then I just sort of forgot about it.
Soldato
iOS 12 added the ability to make and receive calls on the HomePod which is really nice.
Associate
- Joined
- 7 Sep 2014
- Posts
- 1,160
I think Apple has been innovating, just not so much with the phone. I think the phone technology has basically matured now, to the point where it's much harder to do something truly revolutionary — much like the iMac and Laptops. No one is decrying Apple for not reinventing the desktop computer on a yearly basis, we're just happy if they bring out a faster processor, sharper screen, better GPU etc (see the similarity to the phones).
When the first iPhone came out it was a game changer and they were able to build on it quite impressively during the first few years. Now that phone tech in general has matured, the big innovations are few and far between.
To my mind, AirPods and the Apple Watch are two typical ‘Apple’ products that have raised the bar for those genres in recent years. We're seeing a similar level of progression with the Apple Watch that we saw with the early iPhones, but no doubt this will slow. Some may even suggest that the jump from the S3 to S4 Watch isn't that impressive, but then it's a much more restrictive form factor than even the iPhone, so the potential for innovation is limited.
Then there are the other areas where Apple have been focusing like the HomePod. While it may be seen as a bit of a flop, it has clearly taken up a lot of R&D, and if they don't decide to phase it out, they will no doubt invest more time and effort into the HP2/3/4 which may 'do an iPod' and change the landscape of smart speakers.
I do get the feeling that Apple has slipped a bit since Jobs died — they've made some questionable decisions both in terms of hardware and software, UI and UX, but who knows whether that's just coincidence or genuinely due to his lack of input.
As someone said before (either earlier in this thread or in one of the X Poll threads) it sort of feels like Apple brought out this year's phone a year early. If they'd iterated the 8 into a 9 last year, and then released the Xs as the X this year, I think people would be more impressed (although they would have no doubt bemoaned the lack of innovation last year with a 'boring' jump from 8 to 9 — so they can't ever really win).
TL;DR — I think you're expectations for innovation in a mature and saturated market are too high.
Good response dude. I agree with you sighting AirPods and Apple Watch as evolutions. But again do they really make you feel like Apple products are worth the premium? It's interesting that a defending comment (not yours to be fair) about HomePod needs to mention a price point discriminator because we all know it's outsold by Sonos massively. That's not me saying the HomePod is an inferior product it's just saying the difference in what you get form a Alexa powered Sonos device and what you get from the HomePod is tiny. And when you talk about the R&D needed for HomePod remember that Apple has nearly 100x more staff than Sonos - hmmm....
Apple have brought out more phones this year, albeit some of the most expensive phones ever. Innovation in mature companies can happen, it does happen, but it's not happening at Apple at the moment. I have no problem with mature companies starting to tone down their innovation but as they do they need to tone down their prices too. It's just like Google and Microsoft, it's like when companies reach a certain size they become incapable of moving with enough pace to really push technology forward.
I get where you are coming from but I just don't think you are giving companies like Apple enough credit for the work they are doing. Just look at Face ID, now everyone is trying to copy it and not doing as good job. Apple's phones are expensive but their silicon is industry leading and their year old silicone is still beating Qualcom's latest chips. Their phones are made from more premium materials (stainless steal), their software and ecosystem is excellent and they support their phones for 3 times longer than their competitors (iPhone 5S got iOS12 for instance) and all supported phones get the latest OS on day one. Last years flagship Samsung only got Android 8.0 seven months after it launched.
Sonos might outsell the Homepod but they have a much bigger line and yet Sonos sales also don't even register when it comes to the overall 'smart' speaker market. All is not well at Sonos either, they are laying off loads of staff because Amazon/Google are taking the low end and Apple are taking the high end leaving very little left.
Apple does have a huge number of employee's but in reality most of those 150k employee's work in retail and customer support, the rest will mostly be deployed in maintaining the iOS lines and OSX lines. Hardly any will be working on something like the Homepod.
I don't think you can hardly say Google isn't making decent progress either, that demo they did of the 'assistant' calling a hair salon and restaurant to make reservations was insane. Are you forgetting Waymo, Alphabet's self driving car division?
Caporegime
People seem to think about these things for 2 minutes, hear other people saying "apple don't innovate anymore" and suddenly their ill informed opinion is gospel.
Apple has created a few markets like the smart phone and tablet but their greatest ability is to create products that are functionally and aesthetically brilliant. Windows phones were a thing before the iPhone but Jobs realised that people didn't want a proper computer condensed into a tiny screen. By all accounts the iPad was part of apples desire to create the iPhone but again, that created a whole new market at just the right time. This is what they were so good at. There would be no point making the iPad when the internet wasn't something most people used. Whats the point of the iPad without things like youtube and video streaming.
There is still a huge amount of innovation happening in the mobile sector but people don't know enough to realise this. All they see is the look of the phone not the fact that its got a desktop speed processor in it. The fact that faceID is years ahead of the competition. "Android has had face recognition for years". Yes it has and no-one used it because it was crap and insecure and banks etc wouldn't accept it as a form of authentication for their apps or payment.
How about apple pay?
People are just taught that in order to get attention these days you have to complain and be hyperbolic about things. Its brilliant that you have a strong opinion about things you know little about and you shouldn't feel silly about shouting those opinions for all to hear.
Almost all technology is incremental and occasionally there come either a breakthrough new technology that enables something completely new or there is simply a threshold that allows things to happen. Things like when the PC was born out of room sized computers. Same tech just on a tiny scale. This is how mobiles are progressing at the moment. Incremental improvements that will at some point lead to a new breakthrough.
The other thing people have to understand about Apple is that they don't say what they are doing until they launch a product. Samsung and all the Android manufacturers will show you prototypes of stuff that doesn't work or is completely un-usable at the moment simply to willy wave. Recently one of them (I think samsung) showed off a screen that you can roll up. This tech has been around for a few years but its now getting a little more mature. The problem is, people would say "OMG thats amazing, what a cool phone" and then never buy it. Who wants a phone you have to unroll every time you take it from your pocket? Magic products happen when cool tech is combined into a useful product that makes our lives better. At the moment we are just slowly moving towards the next phone that does that.
We currently have a load of tech billlionaires that are revolutionising markets by getting into sectors that are antiquated and bringing them up to speed with current tech. Tesla aren't any more innovative that Apple or Samsung, they are just in a market that has barely changed in 100 years. Its not hard to revolutionise those markets. Its again at a time when everything is falling into place however. Renewables are a massive industry and hot topic and the clean, cheap generation of electricity means electric cars make even more sense and so do batteries to store it. California is paying people to take their excess energy from them so their grid doesn't overload.
This is somewhat rambling but the long and short of it is that saying "company X isn't innovating" is usually an ignorant and uninformed opinion. Its not that simple.
Apple has created a few markets like the smart phone and tablet but their greatest ability is to create products that are functionally and aesthetically brilliant. Windows phones were a thing before the iPhone but Jobs realised that people didn't want a proper computer condensed into a tiny screen. By all accounts the iPad was part of apples desire to create the iPhone but again, that created a whole new market at just the right time. This is what they were so good at. There would be no point making the iPad when the internet wasn't something most people used. Whats the point of the iPad without things like youtube and video streaming.
There is still a huge amount of innovation happening in the mobile sector but people don't know enough to realise this. All they see is the look of the phone not the fact that its got a desktop speed processor in it. The fact that faceID is years ahead of the competition. "Android has had face recognition for years". Yes it has and no-one used it because it was crap and insecure and banks etc wouldn't accept it as a form of authentication for their apps or payment.
How about apple pay?
People are just taught that in order to get attention these days you have to complain and be hyperbolic about things. Its brilliant that you have a strong opinion about things you know little about and you shouldn't feel silly about shouting those opinions for all to hear.
Almost all technology is incremental and occasionally there come either a breakthrough new technology that enables something completely new or there is simply a threshold that allows things to happen. Things like when the PC was born out of room sized computers. Same tech just on a tiny scale. This is how mobiles are progressing at the moment. Incremental improvements that will at some point lead to a new breakthrough.
The other thing people have to understand about Apple is that they don't say what they are doing until they launch a product. Samsung and all the Android manufacturers will show you prototypes of stuff that doesn't work or is completely un-usable at the moment simply to willy wave. Recently one of them (I think samsung) showed off a screen that you can roll up. This tech has been around for a few years but its now getting a little more mature. The problem is, people would say "OMG thats amazing, what a cool phone" and then never buy it. Who wants a phone you have to unroll every time you take it from your pocket? Magic products happen when cool tech is combined into a useful product that makes our lives better. At the moment we are just slowly moving towards the next phone that does that.
We currently have a load of tech billlionaires that are revolutionising markets by getting into sectors that are antiquated and bringing them up to speed with current tech. Tesla aren't any more innovative that Apple or Samsung, they are just in a market that has barely changed in 100 years. Its not hard to revolutionise those markets. Its again at a time when everything is falling into place however. Renewables are a massive industry and hot topic and the clean, cheap generation of electricity means electric cars make even more sense and so do batteries to store it. California is paying people to take their excess energy from them so their grid doesn't overload.
This is somewhat rambling but the long and short of it is that saying "company X isn't innovating" is usually an ignorant and uninformed opinion. Its not that simple.