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Are we marching towards an oblivion?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Evole, Feb 23, 2019.

  1. Evole


    Joined: Jun 26, 2016

    Posts: 151

    Over the last 5 or so years it seems like the world went bonkers. Nationalism, fake news, fear-mongering etc for short lived personal gains are slowly adding up to a point where everyone is getting ready to slice each other throats. Not only on international arena but internally - many countries seem to be reaching boiling points with domestic issues.

    I feel like for last 5 years the world has been ruled by hatred, lying and fear-mongering that ever before. The mentality of US vs Them is created across all parts of our societies internally. On top of that we have same thing on international arena. US vs Them and our utter contempt and hatred for each other.

    There has been many cases but what recently ticked me was the Smollett case... The guy literally engaged in incitement of racial hatred and terrorism yet he is still filming on set of the show. Do you remember Roseanne?? How are the MAGA folks supposed to feel about this whole ordeal? It just furthers their beliefs. How are liberals supposed to feel about the amount of crap Hillary got about emails and yet Trump did just fine on major collusion allegations.

    Russians are sanctioned for getting involved in US politics and made out to be the demons of the world for doing so. Yet there is a long history of other countries influencing US elections such as Israel, Saudis, China and what not. How do regular Russians feel that their alleged involvement in US politics elevated them to worlds evil axis when Americans were boasting not so long ago about helping Yeltsin win against communists?

    I am not defending Russia one bit - they have blood on their hands on many things. What I am concerned about is that we are blaming them for absolutely Everything especially for things we ourselves have very crap record in. It pushes Putins narrative of that west is out to get them, again inciting hatred and the whole US vs them attitude.

    Saudis have free reign in Yemen and are utilizing children soldiers, absolutely horrifying atrocities being committed. The whole Khashoggi case... Some minor outrage that was short lived and business back to normal. Yet we turn around and blast Russians and Chinese on human rights issues. If anyone speaks out about it, labels such as putin bot and whataboutism end the conversation.

    The agreements struck on world stages to de-escalate tensions mean nothing at this point, Russians wiped their arses with Budapest Memorandum, Americans ripped up the Iran deal with no problem. I remember during the Ukraine revolution, a document was signed that would hold elections in 6 or so months (not sure how long) by EU and Russia as mediators.
    Shortly afterwards, the crowd stormed the government, banned communist party and passed first law to restrict/ban Russian language from Ukraine (later vetod). All this while there were literally ultra right nationalists right outside the building.

    Yet we recognized this move as legitimate and then refused to accept Crimean referendum partly citing the armed men being in vicinity of voting booths. How does this look to a Russian I wonder. I strongly believe that there is absolutely no excuse for what they did but I feel like our attitude allowed putin to get away with it. We wiped our arses, he thought he could do it too and he shipped that story to regular Russians. Our good friends who were responsible for 9/11 and now for genocides in Yemen aka Saudis not only have 0 sanctions for doing so but we actually sell them the bombs to make them bombing kids easier. Then we turn to Russia and justify sanctions on them being an ******** (which they are) but we have no intention on doing same to our good friend Saudis. Again, how does regular Russian feel about this whole ordeal?

    From what I understand, Russians and Ukranians were very close not till long ago. Just how much hatred did Putin ship to his people to actually justify rolling tanks into Ukraine country? Some people literally volunteered to kill Ukranians because they truly believed and believe they are doing the right thing. I just personally think that we contributed to this with our attitudes and coverage. We should have been working on neutralizing Putins hatred driven propaganda rather than on daily basis enforcing it. Why is there no outrage and calls for invasion of Saudi Arabia on toppling of its government? I mean the crown literally were found responsible for 9/11, the deadliest attack on US.

    All this constantly saws seeds of hatred between camps domestically and internationally.
    I worry that at one point we will literally be ready to kill each-other out of sheer hatred for one another that our politicians fuel on daily basis for their short sighted gains.
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2019
  2. tintin82


    Joined: Aug 27, 2009

    Posts: 667

    I know what you mean, but we all have a habit of thinking we somehow live in exceptional times. We don't. Things have been worse, much worse. Its not like Genghis Khan is coming from the east.

    TBH is would rather live in todays world rather than how it was in the 60's and 80's. The number of times we came within a hair of a nuclear exchange with the Soviets was truly scary. Google the downing of Korean Flight 007, or Able Archer 83, or Cuban missile crisis. Those were scary times!
  3. SPG


    Joined: Jul 28, 2010

    Posts: 5,490

    Unregulated media is great isnt it.....

    The world has never been safer, less wars, less conflict.

    Whats happening is the press are running scared of the internet and everyone is trying really hard to sensaltionise everything so they can have a bit of the pie.

    The world was much nicer before America decided to take over the internet. From western perspective facebook, twitter, youtube etc need to be regulated.
  4. efish

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 11, 2014

    Posts: 1,321

    The 'information war' is as much an internal issue as it is an external threat.

    I don't think we are marching towards oblivion but if we are not careful we will move further along the road into completely non-democratic forms of government.

    Relationship between democracy and good public education.

    Its knowledge that's under threat, to be free to think and to make informed choices you need a system that provides the impartial data that allows you to do that.

    We may believe in democracy but belief is not enough.
  5. iamtheoneneo


    Joined: Mar 15, 2010

    Posts: 8,816

    Location: Bucks

    Have you heard about some of the stunts America pulled in the 60's?

    The world has honestly never been safer and for the most part it's the middle east that really need to sort their **** out. Saudi Arabia being a prime example.
  6. sigma

    Perma Banned

    Joined: Nov 13, 2006

    Posts: 16,577

    It goes deeper than that. People seem to believe things that suit their agenda regardless of whether they are correct. Indisputable facts are now fake news. Critical thinking has gone out of the window.

    Press headlines often don't quite match the detail but it's easy to.be guided by headlines and soundbites.
  7. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 63,907

    I think there is a risk we aren't looking hard enough after the relative peace and security much of the Western world enjoys - complacency and incompetence is a real risk to it both in attitudes towards war and the truth.

    I don't think that Russia turning the world to flames is either imminent or inevitable but they best recognise/respect strength and will capitalise on weakness - the increasing pacifism that has tended to grow in the West is actually a risk to longer term stability the attitude that if you don't act aggressively towards someone they will have no reason to attack you is a huge fallacy. Countries like, but not necessarily, Russia will feel emboldened as there is less of a push back against them.

    These things don't necessarily grow out of direct confrontation things like the current issues in Venezuela, Ukraine or even the ramping tensions between India and Pakistan could trigger something bigger. It is also easy if you are glued to the latest updates for conflicts like this to live in a state of feeling like things are on the cusp of another world war.
  8. StriderX


    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 20,777

    I’m not sure the several conflicts over the last 30 years has been ‘pacifistic’.

    What are we meant to do against nuclear powers? Call their bluff and attack them anyway?

    The fact is that far too many political demons in the west have spawned because of a combination of corruption surrounding low-tax-highspending Reaganism nonsense, Arab oil state sponsored delinquency/terror funding and Israeli ultra nationalist dogma in the form of aggravating lobbying ( tbh I can get Israel’s position, but after their stooge trump decided it would be funny to try and give the Saudis nuclear tech... not so much now).

    It’s slightly less unfortunate in the UK with respect to the above, but that’s just because we’re practically the US’s convenient poodle, so it doesn’t matter as much.

    Most of the worlds ills would be immediately solved if the Al Sauds were told to impolitely **** off, Israel told to defend itself without meddling constantly in American-European affairs and for the bit the US and UK massively clamp down on special interests.

    Beyond that it’s just standard geopolitics to keep things pretty, if only we didn’t have the distinct reality of climate change about to seriously mess up billions of lives. I’m afraid it’s probably time to just accept that war is coming and it won’t matter where it begins.

    /I know I’m making a few disjointed points, but they all have an effect on our collective ability to be rational/reasonable individuals in a world that’s inherently going to be chaotic for the rest of the century.
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
  9. lemonkettaz


    Joined: Nov 28, 2005

    Posts: 11,702

    The internet basically opened up the can of worms... and now its hard to shut it.

    How do you now start regulating the whole thing without aligning to a certain way? It's impossible you will have to silence something and after a good few year of a free for all you are playing with fire.

    Pretty much too late to the party trying to regulate speech, views, news, opinion within the internet.
  10. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 63,907

    I'm talking about the populations themselves - there are a growing number within Western countries who don't see the value in defence spending, etc.
  11. BowdonUK


    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 2,619

    The world isn't bad but a lot of people are looking for trouble and negativity.

    When the Internet media source became bigger they realised that putting out negative stories got more interactions. So these days they try to put a negative spin on nearly every article they produce, and the MSM that should have been raising Internet media up as actually gone down in standards and are also chasing those clicks. So the end result is the media whether on or offline are complaining about everything for clicks.
  12. jsmoke


    Joined: Jun 17, 2012

    Posts: 7,398

    As said it's partly to do with a fight for ratings between politicans, the media and other businesses. The internet has changed the landscape so much, people can illegally download movies/music, politicians are forced to be more open and honest and the media is fighting to survive(well depending on who their backers/owners are), but they are fighthing for ratings/traffic/sales which has partly created all this sensationalism. There are plenty of media companies that must be close to administration etc with the likes of online news and youtube.
  13. mid_gen


    Joined: Dec 20, 2004

    Posts: 8,416

    The advent of social media has seen nations lose control of information supply within their countries.

    This might not be an issue of itself, but what has happened is that Facebook, Twitter et al, have placed the control of information in our countries up for sale to whoever wants it, for whatever reason. Hostile/self-serving and other malicious actors have seized upon the opportunity far faster than governments have been able to respond.

    The remit of social media companies is going to have to fall under the same controls as existing broadcasting regulations....they aren't going to like it, but it's going to happen.
  14. Tombstone


    Joined: Aug 17, 2007

    Posts: 17,589

    To answer the OP question in the most basic of ways.

    Yes, yes we are marching toward an oblivion, but its nothing new, mankind has been marching toward an oblivion from the beginning.
  15. Evosparki


    Joined: Mar 7, 2016

    Posts: 308

    Location: Birmingham

    Mankind - I disagree.

    Life, even bacteria/fungi purpose is to spread - that is just "life".

    We're the most advanced life form that planet Earth has ever created, yet we've got defeatist's like you slowing us down. Among many other people who couldn't give a damn about the world - a sign that we've effectively conquered our stay of this planet.

    Sounds like all life form types should not exist anywhere in the universe. Then what a peaceful, boring utopia that would be.
  16. 4K8KW10


    Joined: Sep 2, 2017

    Posts: 6,647

    Nuclear world war is impossible and will never happen.. Humans have no control over it :D
  17. Evosparki


    Joined: Mar 7, 2016

    Posts: 308

    Location: Birmingham

    Depends on the state of the planet eco system. If there's nothing or little to sustain then... who giz a poo.
  18. Tombstone


    Joined: Aug 17, 2007

    Posts: 17,589

    Not to be rude to you but you literally know nothing about me beyond a single sentence in a post, far FAR from enough about someone to label them defeatist, especially given that I am considered one of the most optimistic people around by those who know me. You cannot in all realistic judgement upon someone make a call on them based upon a single sentence. If you want to get to know me then happy to do so and you'll see just how enormously wrong you were to kneejerk a defeatist label onto me.
  19. 4K8KW10


    Joined: Sep 2, 2017

    Posts: 6,647

    The Planet's ecosystem still has patience with us. Once we do too much, we will begin to shrink.

    You said the first part of the rule:

    There are conditions, though, and once these conditions are no longer present, life and its various forms begin to shrink.
    Natural balance.

    But it is not about this. Using nuclear weaponry on a planetary scale should disrupt the energy balance in the Universe, at least here in this corner of It. And since this, there are forces which won't allow it to happen.
  20. Tombstone


    Joined: Aug 17, 2007

    Posts: 17,589

    By "forces" do you mean something terrestrial or extraterrestrial?