Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by BowdonUK, May 6, 2019.
But the brexit party by far got the most votes, that means they did win...
They aren’t a party, they’re a company.
Secondly they tried to make this into a semi-ref on a hard Brexit. They got what they wanted and lost quite epically based on vote %.
The others lost by even more though. Trying to combine them to spin a "win" doesn't really work then they have different policies (Lab doesn't even have a policy)...
This election showed there was absolutely zero mandate for a no deal/hard brexit.
But as these elections used proportional representation, not FPTP, getting the most votes doesn't mean the same as it would in a UK election.
Exactly, but everyone is trying to twist the result to try and convince themselves that remainers actually won by combining the votes of all the other parties .
More shocking is how many voted Lib Dem, a party who lost thousands of members after the coalition with the Tories and who now offer more or less to cancel the result of a national referendum. A party of untrustworthy backstabbers currently led by slimeball Cable
If Farage is so bad then the brexit vote clearly shows how many people are more determined than ever to leave the EU
Leaver mentality :-
"You can't have 2 Leave options in a second referendum as that would dilute the Leave vote and not be representative of the overall numbers"
"You can't say that having 2 Remain options is diluting the Remain vote when looking at the overall numbers in the EU elections"
Don't bring logic and reasoning into this. That has no place in Brexit Britain.
So answer this: Are we, the UK, sending a majority of Not-UKIP MEPs to Brussels? Yes or No.
Looks like a somewhat lacklustre night for the Brexit Party in the end. Their seat allocation fell well short of pre-election polls, and the number of Eurosceptic MEPs hasn't really shifted by much.
Going in to this election, the Brexit Party had 14 seats, UKIP had 3 seats, and there were 4 Independents who were members of either the ENF or EFDD. The Tories numbered 7 Eurosceptic MEPs. Coming out of this new election, there are 28 Brexit Party MEPs, and 2 Eurosceptic Tory Party MEPs. So an increase in Eurosceptic representation of two seats. A good result, but not the huge shift in power that many were predicting.
All that has really happened is positions have become more entrenched. Leave voters have flocked to the Brexit Party, abandoning UKIP and the Tories. Remain voters have shifted to the Lib Dems, Greens, Change UK, SNP, Plaid, at the expense of Labour and the Tories. But it seems likely that these are simply the views of the most passionate and/or politically engaged, given the vastly lower turnout than the 2016 referendum.
greens lib dems change are clearly remain parties.
combining them is very logical for assessing vote share.
the same reason I combined ukip and brexit.
Le Pen's party won by ~2%, but performed worse than it did at the last EU election. Meanwhile, Macron's party is forming a new centrist alliance that's even more powerful than the previous one.
Macron: 1, Le Pen: 0.
It's also worth noting that the BXP won several of their seats, including their second in the Brexit stronghold of North East England, solely because the Remain vote was split while the Brexit vote was essentially unified. If the CUKs and Greens had declined to stand and thrown their full support to the LDs, there would at worst have been no increase in Eurosceptic representation and it might actually have gone down. One seat was close enough that it was lost to the LDs only because of the CUKs siphoning votes.
This is what is so frustrating. Remainers and remain parties need to show a united front to the Brexit Party as Brexiteers only really have one choice now. Remainers have many and it is just going to end up giving more power to the Brexit Party.
Not really, these parties have their there own polices, (people vote for them for reasons other than Brexit) the Brexit Party has just one.
If you want to be fair then Conservative and Labour should be included in the Pro-Brexit numbers, leave is leave regardless of whether it's a deal or WTO. That would be 58.1% for Pro Brexit.
Both have stated they would honour the public vote, until they say otherwise they're leave parties.
How does this ^
Not also apply to this
Strange logic you are using here
Makes perfect sense, if you're going to add up all the different "remain" parties for a figure (even though many vote for them for different reasons), then by the same logic all the leave parties should combined for the figure as well.
It works both ways, or not at all.
I think the logic behind it is that green/LD/SNP all are unashamedly remain and are very clear that they want to remain in the EU.
We all know by now that the labour and conservative MP's (conservative more so) are split on brexit and therefore no one really knows where they lie on the issue (Labour flirt with the idea of a 2nd referendum for example).
Furthermore, for an EU election it makes zero sense to vote for LD/Green/SNP if you want brexit. They are completely pro EU so why would you do that ?
It is however quite realistic for a life long labour voter to vote for labour still, even if they are a remainer , possibly in the hope of a 2nd ref.
Ultimately though, you are right, there is no way to completely tell what the overall sentiment is from these EU election numbers.
I do think this is quite telling though:
UKIP + Tory 2014 - 43 Seats
UKIP + Brexit Party + Tory 2019 - 33 Seats
Green party voters are hippies, hipsters and Vegans, why do they do anything?
SNP would have won by a large margin in Scotland regardless of Brexit, that's about Scottish independence., not necessarily about Brexit.
Sure, but the fact remains they will respect the public vote, whether that means the leave result or a new ref where people may still vote to leave.
Scottish independence was put to bed until Brexit came along. After the referendum, I can't really blame them for wanting independence, to then rejoin the EU
Separate names with a comma.