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Poll: Are you going to vote in the European Elections?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by BowdonUK, May 6, 2019.

?

Who will you be voting for?

Poll closed May 23, 2019.
  1. Conservative

    2 vote(s)
    0.8%
  2. Labour

    8 vote(s)
    3.2%
  3. Liberal Democrat

    143 vote(s)
    56.7%
  4. Brexit

    58 vote(s)
    23.0%
  5. UKIP

    7 vote(s)
    2.8%
  6. SNP

    7 vote(s)
    2.8%
  7. Change UK

    3 vote(s)
    1.2%
  8. Green

    20 vote(s)
    7.9%
  9. DUP

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. Plaid Cymru

    1 vote(s)
    0.4%
  11. Independent

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  12. Other party

    3 vote(s)
    1.2%
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  1. SlugForAButt

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Sep 5, 2009

    Posts: 2,436

    Location: God's own country

    So, the taxpayers money spent defending the "Balen report" on technical grounds was money well spent then? The BBC is an organisation that stands on it's own, and shouldn't be funded by a tax. God knows I wouldn't fund it if I had the choice.
     
  2. Evangelion

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 29, 2007

    Posts: 21,901

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    The far right crypto-fascist government of Sebastian Kurz has been completely removed from power by a no confidence vote, as Austrians demanded action following the explosive revelation of a deep corruption scandal.

    Kurz' government lasted for just 17 months; one of the shortest in Austrian history.

    It will be interesting to see how the next federal election pans out. Socialists and Greens are hopeful, considering their strong performance in the EU election.
     
  3. b0rn2sk8

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 9, 2003

    Posts: 4,179

    That’s quite a deflection, what’s it got to do with last nights broadcast?
     
  4. BowdonUK

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 2,144

    From reading the news sites it seems more like a falling out between the 2 far-right parties in government. Kurz took a swipe at the FP and they took a swipe back at him by backing the oppositions no confidence votes.

    Interestingly during all this politics, Kurz's party scored the biggest victory in the european elections by winning 7 seats with 34.9% of the vote.
     
  5. SlugForAButt

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Sep 5, 2009

    Posts: 2,436

    Location: God's own country

    I quoted why I thought it was relevant. A history of bias, one way or the other is still bias, and the BBC has a blatant history of it.
     
  6. b0rn2sk8

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 9, 2003

    Posts: 4,179

    But again the accusation was specifically relating to last nights live coverage of the count/election results. The accuser said the coverage was biased against the Brexit party.

    If you or the original poster has any actual evidence of that I’m all ears otherwise it’s just deflection in place of offering any actual evidence or facts to support the accusation.
     
  7. Slam62

    Soldato

    Joined: Jan 3, 2006

    Posts: 7,193

    Location: Monaco

    Tbh I am pretty much on the fence about the EU, I think they have expanded too quickly and the euro is unbalanced. The ecb are out of control and some of the leaders shouldn't be in roles.

    A trading block and a single currency is a good idea and the way forward if done properly.

    Unfortunately the only way that can work is through unified tax and debt. Not sure how that would go down.
     
  8. Slam62

    Soldato

    Joined: Jan 3, 2006

    Posts: 7,193

    Location: Monaco

    I take it you disagree then, you think you can cherry pick policies.
     
  9. Irish_Tom

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 12,040

    That ‘falling out’ was due to the leader of the minority half of the two far-right parties being caught on camera accepting help from a Russian Oligarch’s daughter in exchange for public contracts.

    From the Guardian:

    Your post makes it sound like a minor disagreement over policy or something. This was serious evidence of corruption.
     
  10. DarkHorizon472

    Mobster

    Joined: May 16, 2007

    Posts: 2,692

    That will eventually be a key decision over the direction of the EU.
     
  11. platypus

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jul 25, 2003

    Posts: 38,869

    Location: Rhône-Alpes+Cambridge

    One can only hope.

    Whilst the current Labour party should be strung up with the rest of them a coalition with the Lib Dems would be a good starting ground.
     
  12. Evangelion

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 29, 2007

    Posts: 21,901

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    ^^ This.

    It was the biggest corruption scandal in the history of Austrian politics.

    I've been greatly impressed (and encouraged) by the Lib Dems' massive surge during the EU elections. Hopefully a sign of good things to come.
     
  13. Irish_Tom

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 12,040

    <sigh>

    Let's break this down as simply as possible so you can stop riddling cryptic questions:

    You said:
    So do people not accept the result of a democratic vote, run to the rules and system that had been lawfully stipulated.?
    No one has said they don't accept the result.

    You said:
    Are we going to change the rules every time so we get the result we want.?
    No one has said that we need to change the rules to get a different result.

    You said:
    It seems to me similar to the approach taken by various dictators to claim a win. I must say it is disturbing.
    I would challenge you to show us some evidence of this.

    You said:
    Would you accept that the Brexit party got more votes than any other party?
    No one is disputing that the BXP, as a single party, got more votes and more seats than any other single party.

    You said:
    Hence the package they presented was more popular than that of any other party.
    Yes, the package they presented was more popular than that of any other single party, but as they only got 1/3 of the votes, this can't be interpreted as a majority mandate for delivering a WTO Brexit. Not least because the other hard-remain parties collectively also achieved 1/3 of the vote.

    You said:
    Because of the current system, you cannot cherry pick policies.
    What do you mean 'because of the current system'? I assume by 'cherry pick policies' you are suggesting that some people who voted Green (for example) didn't do so because of their stance on Brexit but because of their environmental policy and, as such, we can't attribute every Green vote to a clear vote for remain (ditto for Lib Dem and Change UK).

    I'll address this last point in a bit more detail:

    1) I would say that BXP doesn't have any policies, so it's a bit difficult to know exactly what they represent (other than a WTO Brexit). As a single-issue party, they have made themselves an easy option for protest voters and 'Brexit at any cost' voters. If they ran a GE campaign with a manifesto pledge to privatise the NHS, I think they might lose one or two voters. ;)

    2) Because the hard-remain parties couldn't agree on a coalition strategy for the European elections, they were contesting seats amongst themselves and split the vote. We've already seen than Change UK cost the Lib Dems a couple of seats. Brexiteers are always telling us that there couldn't be two leave options on the ballot for any future referendum because it would split the leave vote, but they were very happy that the remain vote was split for this poll.

    3) On the specific subject of cherry-picking policies: I accept that there are Lib Dem and Green voters who would still like us to leave (whether that's because they feel we should uphold the result of the original referendum or are genuinely eurosceptic).

    Rob posted this in the other thread:

    However, if you accept the above, you must accept that there are BXP voters who do actually want a deal (many who want the WA) and even some who actually want to remain in the EU. Also, based on that chart, the clear preference for Lib Dem, Green and CUK voters is to remain.

    Now, although this technically wasn't a proxy referendum, anyone voting as if it was a normal EU election has missed a bit of a trick. If the pro-Brexit parties get there way, the MEPs will be out of a job soon — so there's no point voting in a green MEP because of their environmental credentials if you don't want them to be there in the first place.

    So I'm not cherry-picking policies, but given the unusual nature of this particular election, I would be surprised if there was a large percentage of people who did not vote down clear leave/remain lines (unless they voted Con/Lab). Furthermore, the poll above was taken before the EU election, there's no guarantee that the make-up of people in that graph accurately reflects those who actually turned out to vote, which is hampered by the low voter turnout.

    So tell me, how does any of the above reflect your view that people:

    1) don't accept the result
    2) want to change the rules to get a different outcome
    3) are using similar tactics to dictators to claim a win

    As I said in my first reply to you — no one is rejecting the result, they are simply interpreting the results which shows:
    • 1/3 clear vote for WTO Brexit
    • 1/3 clear vote for Remain parties
    • 1/3 vote for Con/Lab which could mean anything from WTO/Hard Brexit/Soft Brexit/Remain
     
  14. Rilot

    Don

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 19,431

    Location: Wargrave, UK

    This thread seems to be becoming just another Brexit thread so will be closed.
     
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