Are you proud to be British?

I love being British - we have such nuanced culture and humour... as I’m sure many other countries do. I wouldn’t want to live anywhere else.

Hard not to mention Brexit though - it’s very embarrassing. Quite looking forward to seeing how progressive we become once all the old codgers, that largely influenced to vote to leave, pop their clogs :p
 
Superficial said:
I'm not trying to pick a fight - just trying to get onlookers to think in a different way.

I see this time and time again - We look at the forum as though we are equals...but we are all of equal weight with respect to our opinions but each have our own persuasions and prejudices that anonymity gives greater license too.

When I look at this forum and see people criticizing I ask myself a simple question: Do they feel particularly connected to Britain...or any country but if not you are more likely to criticize I think or in this case feel less proud.
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I think there’s a massive gulf between being “proud” to be British from a historical standpoint (what the country has achieved in the past, from the empire to scientific advances to WW2 etc), and being “proud” of what the UK is today and where it is heading.

Currently the UK is still a world leader, but doesn’t stand much against many other western countries in most aspects. Several of those countries are gaining speed, while were starting to slip behind and slow our advances as we look into the future. THATs the issue.

I think your last paragraph is a bit one sided as well. You’re not necessarily going to “criticize” because you live outside the country. You may well however get a broader view of the country after stepping back, speaking to others from outside the country* and generally being able to compare things with more experience.

*As an example one of the things I’ve been asked a lot over the last year or two is (to paraphrase) “What the hell is the UK doing? It’s like it’s imploding.”
 
Amp34 said:
That environment is one of the things that has defined us as British for centuries. It includes openness, tolerance and a welcoming attitude for all throughout the world. Unfortunately that part of “being British” has been eroded significantly since the olympics and the UK is becoming seen as somewhere people are less interested in visiting and working.

Being insular is not who we are and never has been, yet we are heading that way right now. That’s something that makes me less “proud” to be British at the moment.
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That’s because the terms which you so admire have changed significantly. It was only in 1948 when the British Nationality Act came in to being allowing immigrants from the Commonwealth to come to Britain. In the early fifties immigration stood in thousands, by the 60’s it had reached six figures. Once New Labour abolished the ‘primary purpose’ rule and literally opened the borders up post 1997 the numbers (300,000+ net by circa 2015) became intolerable to a great many people in this country.

This country is still one of the most open and tolerant nations in the world. And that is despite the fact that for a great many people they have seen staggering levels of societal change, which many people have been alarmed by for decades.

Leaving the EU does not create an insular nation, it creates a nation which governs itself and removes us from a very dangerous and extremely expensive political union which is now at the stage that it very much threatens the democratic principles of its host nations. It is also seriously aiding in the erosion of the individual historic cultures of those nations.
 
Craterloads said:
I wonder why there is such a stark difference in response between the UK and US when it comes to pride of country / nationality?
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It's indoctrinated in them from birth. In school it's all about standing for the national anthem and singing all the words when they play little league games.

When we say "only in America" we are usually talking about the insane obesity levels or another mass shooting. The Americans, though, see that saying in the total opposite light. "Only in America" is all about the American dream, regardless of how realistic, people still believe that anyone can rise to become President for example.

In Britain you and I will never sit on the throne, it can't happen short of a complete coup. I have no love for the Royal Family, I have a distinct dislike for our political class, I think inner cities are hell holes and the countryside is full of Hooray Henry's who get kicks out of butchering the wildlife.

But I am still patriotic. Not in regards to the institutions but towards my fellow countrymen
 
Explosivo said:
I used to be, but this government has made me lose all faith I ever had in British values.
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If this govt is representative of the people then this country has no values. We will all happily stab each other in the back for personal gain (and not-so-secretly hate each other anyway), we all put personal interests above the greater good, we don't honour agreements, we lie continually and compulsively, spend all day looking at porn at work... the list goes on :p
 
Superficial said:
I'm not trying to pick a fight - just trying to get onlookers to think in a different way.

I see this time and time again - We look at the forum as though we are equals...but we are all of equal weight with respect to our opinions but each have our own persuasions and prejudices that anonymity gives greater license too.

When I look at this forum and see people criticizing I ask myself a simple question: Do they feel particularly connected to Britain...or any country but if not you are more likely to criticize I think or in this case feel less proud.
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its cool its good to talk, its good to ask questions. Ill speak as honestly as i can.
I cant personally understand too well how one can feel connected to Britain, or any other country.
Ok, EVERYONE is born and raised somewhere.. I don't believe in god so it's basically a fluke that i was created in Britain. Should i be proud of that? Not really. I was raised in a British culture if i was born in France id be raised in a French culture. Does not every country say, "Are you not proud to be French/Japanese/Russian/Dutch......

Do any counties population actively say " Bad luck you was Born Swedish, we are useless scum compared to Norway, we should all kill ourselves before we reproduce."
Therefore isn't being proud of a country one of the dumbest things you could be proud of?

I could be thankful, hardly proud, that my/our ancestors exploited the hell out of the world 250 years ago and made Britain ontop of the pecking order thus giving me a good, Western standard of living.
\dont get me wrong i am not an apologist for slavery and stripping countries bare of their wealth, like India. I couldn't care less about it.... old history.

Basically yes we/the UK are all pretty near the top of the pole when it comes to living standards. The only way to look is down, and criticise.

Im really tired and rambling. People being proud to be a citizen of where ever they are born is great. They can die first when the war comes. They can die proud, while i live indifferent until im drafted up to die for 2 mens idiotic arguments about how its best ideologically to enslave your population.
 
Efour said:
its cool its good to talk, its good to ask questions. Ill speak as honestly as i can.
I cant personally understand too well how one can feel connected to Britain, or any other country.
Ok, EVERYONE is born and raised somewhere.. I don't believe in god so it's basically a fluke that i was created in Britain. Should i be proud of that? Not really. I was raised in a British culture if i was born in France id be raised in a French culture. Does not every country say, "Are you not proud to be French/Japanese/Russian/Dutch......

Do any counties population actively say " Bad luck you was Born Swedish, we are useless scum compared to Norway, we should all kill ourselves before we reproduce."
Therefore isn't being proud of a country one of the dumbest things you could be proud of?

I could be thankful, hardly proud, that my/our ancestors exploited the hell out of the world 250 years ago and made Britain ontop of the pecking order thus giving me a good, Western standard of living.
\dont get me wrong i am not an apologist for slavery and stripping countries bare of their wealth, like India. I couldn't care less about it.... old history.

Basically yes we/the UK are all pretty near the top of the pole when it comes to living standards. The only way to look is down, and criticise.

Im really tired and rambling. People being proud to be a citizen of where ever they are born is great. They can die first when the war comes. They can die proud, while i live indifferent until im drafted up to die for 2 mens idiotic arguments about how its best ideologically to enslave your population.
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I really don't think that the assertion that the UK is (currently) a rich country due to 'exploiting' the rest of the word stands up to much scrutiny. Slavery and such activities certainly made a few aristocrats very rich but it didn't do much for the general wealth of the nation. The industrial revolution was the main generator of wealth and better living standards in the long run in the UK. If exploiting countries was a guaranteed of wealth in the present time then Spain and Portugal should be some of the richest countries in the world of the back of having traded in the largest quantity of slaves and having exploited south America and parts of Africa
 
rare said:
Makes no sense. If someone is poor, how does his neighbour being as poor make it a more preferable scenario?

If you can’t afford to eat, you are still hungry regardless if you have nothing to compare it to. It’s better for some to be able to afford to eat because they buy the food which stimulates the economy and therefore provides a better opportunity to raise all standards of living.

If everyone is poor there is no basis for economic recovery and no chance of progression.
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In part because if you’re poor in a rich country then the cost of living is higher.

Food costs for example. The staples can cost a lot less in parts of Africa, South America and Asia because the labour and other associated costs are cheaper.

Another example would be why do many stag dos go to Eastern Europe? Because the booze, food and entertainment is cheaper. That means someone living in the UK on £5,000 a year is going to really struggle with food and accommodation costs, but that same person may well be able to live comfortably in Eastern Europe, parts of Africa or Asia. Poverty and being poor is largely relative.

The cost of luxuries like BMWs, large TVs and other electronics are relatively similar throughout the world, so if you’re poor, you’re poor and won’t be able to afford it no matter what country you’re in, but most of the “needs” are priced relative to the wealth of a country.
 
Caracus2k said:
I really don't think that the assertion that the UK is (currently) a rich country due to 'exploiting' the rest of the word stands up to much scrutiny. Slavery and such activities certainly made a few aristocrats very rich but it didn't do much for the general wealth of the nation. The industrial revolution was the main generator of wealth and better living standards in the long run in the UK. If exploiting countries was a guaranteed of wealth in the present time then Spain and Portugal should be some of the richest countries in the world of the back of having traded in the largest quantity of slaves and having exploited south America and parts of Africa
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Slavery, the raw materials it produced and stripping India fueled and allowed the industrial revolution. That's just basic history. (And im super glad it happened)
 
Efour said:
Slavery, the raw materials it produced and stripping India fueled and allowed the industrial revolution. That's just basic history.
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The raw materials that mainly fuelled the industrial revolution were domestically mined coal and iron ore.

It was the capitalist industrial revolution that was the key to increasing wealth. A system that relies on just stealing from others does not increase the universal levels of wealth quite the opposite. The Spanish and Portuguese took astronomical quantities of gold from the Americas but lagged behind northern Europe in industry and innovation leaving them poorer in the long run.

India was a collection ofsmall warring states before the Europeans arrived. Obviously it wasnt the intention of the Europeans to make a united and more productive nation in the Indian sub continent but that was the result none the less.

If a colonial legacy made counties rich then Turkey should be a lot more prosperous from its former Ottoman empire...
 
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rare said:
That’s because the terms which you so admire have changed significantly. It was only in 1948 when the British Nationality Act came in to being allowing immigrants from the Commonwealth to come to Britain. In the early fifties immigration stood in thousands, by the 60’s it had reached six figures. Once New Labour abolished the ‘primary purpose’ rule and literally opened the borders up post 1997 the numbers (300,000+ net by circa 2015) became intolerable to a great many people in this country.

This country is still one of the most open and tolerant nations in the world. And that is despite the fact that for a great many people they have seen staggering levels of societal change, which many people have been alarmed by for decades.

Leaving the EU does not create an insular nation, it creates a nation which governs itself and removes us from a very dangerous and extremely expensive political union which is now at the stage that it very much threatens the democratic principles of its host nations. It is also seriously aiding in the erosion of the individual historic cultures of those nations.
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The 1948 act was more a formalization of what had already been going on for centuries by that point, including from outside the colonies. The ebb and flow of people, ideas, cultures and languages is part and parcel with being a major trading nation, something Britain has been (to various extents) for much of the last century millennia. It’s the reason our language is so diverse/complicated, why many of our cities were diverse way before the 20th century and why we have such a distinguished scientific past. In many instances we were also the first port of call when someone’s country went to ****.

During that time there has always been dissent and undercurrent of dislike to immigrants and “foreigners”, sometimes, like now, it ends up at the surface. Nothing has changed in reality in this regard.

Yes, of course the country is still one of the most open and tolerant countries. The issue is, from an outsiders perspective, the perception is not of that. People see what is happening: leaving the EU*, rise in hate crime, the rhetoric from the media and politicians, difficulty in the visa process (especially student and skilled worker) etc. and look towards other countries instead.

There are plenty of other countries out there with open and tolerant attitudes, and these are the countries that are going to benefit, especially as the US is also expressing the “we’re closed” sentiment too. Those countries know it too, and are already positioning and advertising themselves to those people that may have seen the UK as the the place to go. Australia, Canada, Denmark, France, Germany etc etc. are all ready and waiting to pounce. For example: https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.the...10/fed-up-brexit-britain-come-work-denmark-eu

*Note, pure the one bringing the EU up here. It is one reason, but there’s myriad of reasons why.
 
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rare said:
No but I’ve travelled a fair deal. Across many states (South and North East) in the US, Canada, all of Western Europe and much of Eastern Europe, Turkey and so on.

I think we live in one of the fairest nations on the planet, and I am grateful for it and the opportunities that have been given to me.
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I've travelled the world but living and just visiting are two different things. I lived in 3 different countries and I can tell you for example living in Bavaria has not much to do with how life is in hamburg, same for north carolina vs california vs boston. Living =/= Visiting. You do not get to experience first hand bureaucracy, welfare, commute at peak hours, etc

So deciding that UK is the greatest there is from stuff you experienced on holidays and read on wikipedia does not count. It might be something your are telling yourself but it is precisely why our country is where it is now with Brexit.

I will give you the example with my daughter: she thought Frozen was her favourite movie. She did not want to watch anything else. Somehow after many reruns she gave in and watched Finding Dory. Now that is her favorite movie. geddit?
 
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