Are you proud to be British?

[Gammawolf]

I'm proud to be an American, where at least I know I'm free.

 

[Amp34]

Slavery, the raw materials it produced and stripping India fueled and allowed the industrial revolution. That's just basic history. (And im super glad it happened)

There’s not really one reason. There are a multitude of reasons. Everything from our natural resources, climate and geography that have us a good start. Our stability and governance (things like the Magna Carta likely made a big difference). Our proximity to trading partners leading to our “mastery of the sea” and subsequent ability to travel the world, the colonialisation that that enabled and subsequently the use of resources and slavery.

We got to where we were/are because of a combination of those factors (and more). A combination of “luck”, judgement and a stable base.

 

[Sankari]

I am proud to be British.

 

[Name]

I'm not proud to be English or British, I feel an enormous amount of white guilt and quite frankly I'm ashamed and there needs to be more equality.

 

[rare]

The 1948 act was more a formalization of what had already been going on for centuries by that point, including from outside the colonies. The ebb and flow of people, ideas, cultures and languages is part and parcel with being a major trading nation, something Britain has been (to various extents) for much of the last century. It’s the reason our language is so diverse/complicated, why many of our cities were diverse way before the 20th century and why we have such a distinguished scientific past. In many instances we were also the first port of call when someone’s country went to ****.

During that time there has always been dissent and undercurrent of dislike to immigrants and “foreigners”, sometimes, like now, it ends up at the surface. Nothing has changed in reality in this regard.

Yes, of course the country is still one of the most open and tolerant countries. The issue is, from an outsiders perspective, the perception is not of that. People see what is happening: leaving the EU*, rise in hate crime, the rhetoric from the media and politicians, difficulty in the visa process (especially student and skilled worker) etc. and look towards other countries instead.

There are plenty of other countries out there with open and tolerant attitudes, and these are the countries that are going to benefit, especially as the US is also expressing the “we’re closed” sentiment too. Those countries know it too, and are already positioning and advertising themselves to those people that may have seen the UK as the the place to go. Australia, Canada, Denmark, France, Germany etc etc. are all ready and waiting to pounce. For example: https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.the...10/fed-up-brexit-britain-come-work-denmark-eu

*Note, pure the one bringing the EU up here. It is one reason, but there’s myriad of reasons why.

Indeed there has always been fluctuating movement of peoples, but never in the sheer numbers relative to the population that have been witnessed over the last 20-30 years.

The 2011 census showed only 44.9 percent of Londoners identified themselves as ‘White British’ for example. It doesn’t take a genius to realise that for many people, this is a problem of great concern.

 

[Caracus2k]

The 1948 act was more a formalization of what had already been going on for centuries by that point, including from outside the colonies. The ebb and flow of people, ideas, cultures and languages is part and parcel with being a major trading nation, something Britain has been (to various extents) for much of the last century. It’s the reason our language is so diverse/complicated, why many of our cities were diverse way before the 20th century and why we have such a distinguished scientific past. In many instances we were also the first port of call when someone’s country went to ****.

During that time there has always been dissent and undercurrent of dislike to immigrants and “foreigners”, sometimes, like now, it ends up at the surface. Nothing has changed in reality in this regard.

Yes, of course the country is still one of the most open and tolerant countries. The issue is, from an outsiders perspective, the perception is not of that. People see what is happening: leaving the EU*, rise in hate crime, the rhetoric from the media and politicians, difficulty in the visa process (especially student and skilled worker) etc. and look towards other countries instead.

There are plenty of other countries out there with open and tolerant attitudes, and these are the countries that are going to benefit, especially as the US is also expressing the “we’re closed” sentiment too. Those countries know it too, and are already positioning and advertising themselves to those people that may have seen the UK as the the place to go. Australia, Canada, Denmark, France, Germany etc etc. are all ready and waiting to pounce. For example: https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.the...10/fed-up-brexit-britain-come-work-denmark-eu

*Note, pure the one bringing the EU up here. It is one reason, but there’s myriad of reasons why.

Nonsense the immigration prior to 1948 was nothing like what we have seen now where over half the new population every year in the UK is the result of immigration or their children. The desperate attempt to portray the inward migration, especially of the last 20 years, as 'business as usual' for the UK is laughably inept.

A frequent point raised by Brexit supporters is that far from it being a 'no more foreigners' move it would allow the UK to control inward migration allowing only those desirable to the UK to enter rather than the effective free for all we currently have.

Its cringe worthy that you put Australia on your list ... try rocking up there unannounced and you may find yourself in a detention centre in another country. Australia is a huge country with lots of scope for inward migration but it picks and chooses in the main who get in and who doesn't based on the skills of the candidates. The UK would be free to pursue a similar immigration policy after leaving the EU if it wished.

 

[rare]

I'm not proud to be English or British, I feel an enormous amount of white guilt and quite frankly I'm ashamed and there needs to be more equality.

White guilt? What nonsense! What have you got to be guilty about for being white? This is one of the most equal nations in the world.

 

[Zefan]

I would never say that I am proud to be British, I find the idea completely ridiculous. Being proud of being born in a certain country is like being proud of being born a man or a woman. Pride is supposed to be a feeling you have about something that you have actually done, not something you've just been born in to.

 

[rare]

I would never say that I am proud to be British, I find the idea completely ridiculous. Being proud of being born in a certain country is like being proud of being born a man or a woman. Pride is supposed to be a feeling you have about something that you have actually done, not something you've just been born in to.

While I do understand and to a large part subscribe to this view , I don’t think the idea is completely ridiculous. A nation is also about family, and for those whose families have contributed a lot or sacrificed a lot for the advancement/protection of their nation you can see how national pride can become a quite personal matter.

 

[Uther]

I am proud to be British.

That's 'cos you don't live here.
Even though I was born here, my family (and indeed all of my wife's family) are Irish, so I don't consider myself to be 'British' anyway. Being born in western Europe is more a thing to be grateful for, not 'proud'.
Still wish my dad had gone through with his 'ten pound pom' idea all those years ago though.

 

[Narj]

White guilt? What nonsense! What have you got to be guilty about for being white? This is one of the most equal nations in the world.

Looks like the social conditioning is working!

 

[Zefan]

While I do understand and to a large part subscribe to this view , I don’t think the idea is completely ridiculous. A nation is also about family, and for those whose families have contributed a lot or sacrificed a lot for the advancement/protection of their nation you can see how national pride can become a quite personal matter.

It comes down to the same thing really, I don't feel proud of my parents achievements or their parents achievements. The same way I wouldn't feel guilty or any less proud of myself if I was a son of a Nazi war criminal. I can understand the idea of being proud of being part of a nation if one has made a conscious impact/contribution towards shaping it, but that isn't likely to be the case for 99% of the population.

 

[Caracus2k]

I'm not proud to be English or British, I feel an enormous amount of white guilt and quite frankly I'm ashamed and there needs to be more equality.

Feel free to give away the majority of your money and possessions to alleviate your guilt if that helps......

Although ironically you wont be posting here when you have reduced yourself to a more 'equal' state what with having no electrical goods or internet connection.

Personally I don't subscribe to collective intergenerational guilt tripping as it is a clear and obvious dodge of personal responsibility

 

[Amp34]

Nonsense the immigration prior to 1948 was nothing like what we have seen now where over half the new population every year in the UK is the result of immigration or their children. The desperate attempt to portray the inward migration, especially of the last 20 years, as 'business as usual' for the UK is laughably inept.

A frequent point raised by Brexit supporters is that far from it being a 'no more foreigners' move it would allow the UK to control inward migration allowing only those desirable to the UK to enter rather than the effective free for all we currently have.

Its cringe worthy that you put Australia on your list ... try rocking up there unannounced and you may find yourself in a detention centre in another country. Australia is a huge country with lots of scope for inward migration but it picks and chooses in the main who get in and who doesn't based on the skills of the candidates. The UK would be free to pursue a similar immigration policy after leaving the EU if it wished.

You've completely missed the point of the post. It’s nothing to do wth current immigration policy, rather the British culture over the centuries (tolerance and openness towards different peoples, cultures and ideas) and the change in perception of the UK on the world stage.

And the “children of immigrants” stat is irrelevant. But of course it also makes an irrelevant number. (Apologies if you replied to my post one SC from a few weeks ago, I haven’t had the chance to read the thread and any replies).

Again, I’m not talking about Brexit specifically, its another irrelevant point. (Ironically, considering the comments in this thread) Not everything revolves around Brexit.

 

[Tunney]

The 2011 census showed only 44.9 percent of Londoners identified themselves as ‘White British’ for example. It doesn’t take a genius to realise that for many people, this is a problem of great concern.

Rome was no different at the very height of its powers (though obviously ~50% Roman rather than British ). It prospered for hundreds of years this way.

 

[rare]

This white guilt business is shameful stuff. It reminds me of autophagy, when an octopus goes mad and starts to inflict self-cannibalism.

 

[Uther]

Rome was no different at the very height of its powers (though obviously ~50% Roman rather than British ). It prospered for hundreds of years this way.

And then...

 

[rare]

Rome was no different at the very height of its powers (though obviously ~50% Roman rather than British ). It prospered for hundreds of years this way.

Indeed, but not without it’s own internal problems either!

 

[Caracus2k]

You've completely missed the point of the post. It’s nothing to do wth current immigration policy, rather the British culture over the centuries (tolerance and openness towards different peoples, cultures and ideas) and the change in perception of the UK on the world stage.

There no need for the 'cuture' to change we just need to stop the free for all that is EU freedom of movement. I can go to a country like Japan and find mutual tolerance and a high degree of openness to culture and ideas..... Japan has a culture on late heavily influenced by American culture and has industry and business that has borrowed lots from the north American and European industries (and added a lot of its own innovations).

But the country is almost entirely mono racial. You don't need to have an open door to uncontrolled migration to have what you aspire to if fact I would say in the long run such a policy destroys the 'tolerance' and 'openness' you seek

 

[rare]

It comes down to the same thing really, I don't feel proud of my parents achievements or their parents achievements. The same way I wouldn't feel guilty or any less proud of myself if I was a son of a Nazi war criminal. I can understand the idea of being proud of being part of a nation if one has made a conscious impact/contribution towards shaping it, but that isn't likely to be the case for 99% of the population.

I think this has become more relevant as society has changed so massively in such a short time. It’s much easier to feel a kinship with a population you feel you share fundamental principles, morals or even a religion in common. It’s much less likely when you barely recognise the language, culture and makeup of towns and cities in your own country.