Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by VincentHanna, Aug 19, 2019.
Pretty sure you have not even watched the video.
Seem's you want to ignore reality, is far-right violence ok?
Did this guy inform the police about the incident?
I may be missing something, but filming these clashes would show both sides fighting? Not sure how that is glorifying the far-right.
And no, all violence is not OK.
He could have easily been stood with Antifa when they plan a confrontation , but we all know how that turns out.
And surely there is video this guy took of the confrontation? I'd like to see it if you have a link.
Yes you end up getting charged and possible going to jail if evidence emerges of you planning the confrontation wither that is Patriot Prayer or Antifa.
Which is what happened here.
Key thing is was it planned? Did you intend to cause a violent disturbance and provoke violence?
If the answer is yes, clearly you pose a threat to the general public and criminal charges are appropriate.
Like anyone else you are innocent until proven guilty and get to defend yourself in court.
Patriot Prayer's defense is the event was unplanned. The police obtained evidence that suggested this was not the case and charges were made.
As they should be.
The point is, was Andy Ngo involved in the planning, or just aware something was going down, and did the undercover guy filming inform the police about the incident. If he didn't, he's just as guilty as Andy Ngo.
Ngo witnessed the planning and later referred to the event as an 'antifa brawl.'
The undercover guy claims to have phoned the bar and later passed all video evidence on to the police.
I don't think their is a comparison. One acted responsible one did not.
Ngo was the victim of a criminal assault in a separate event . He was hailed as a hero by the media.
Its the hero part that is up for question.
If he had reported or retrospectively informed the authorities that he was a witness to this other event, fine, would be standing up to violence on the streets of America, that is a good thing.
That does not appear to be the case.
He appears somewhat selective with what he presents to the public.
If the undercover guy witnessed or participated in antifa planning or engaging in common criminality then things would look the same. Although their is no evidence to suggest that is the case.
Regardless of reputation or the moral intent of the individuals here, the folks who assaulted Ngo should be arrested and charged, if the right wing group sought to engage in and incite acts of violence they should be charged.
When people think of "the left" now they think of borderline terrorist organisations like Antifa. Who are just as violent as unhinged as white supremacists.
It used to be Russian style communism, but now it's that.
Is that like how people thought of the right as a bunch of Nazis and white supremacists but now everyone thinks of them as borderline terrorists?
I bet their are plenty of you tube videos supporting both positions as it's the kind of 'no surrender' rhetoric you find on it.
And that view is utterly wrong and shows how susceptible people are to the lies and disingenuity perpetrated by the by largely right wing media organisations. Most people these days don't even know Antifa isn't a single large organisation but an umbrella term used to refer to and smear all anti-fascist/counter protesters of right wing politics. People have been lead to believe that Antifa is some new violent left wing movement which is a threat to society. It's complete ********. Somehow anti-fascism is now being compared to actual fascism, of which is seemingly now more tolerated amongst the general center to right wing leaning population than in a long time.
ANTIFA despite being a bunch of thugs are absolutely miles off being a 'terrorist organisation', you've got be next level gullible to think they are terrorists and as violent as white supremacists. How many people has ANTIFA killed ? Zero is your answer, now go check the body count for white supermacists.
Both are bad and capable of violence but one is clearly far worse than the other when it comes to extreme behaviour... only way you could argue otherwise is to ignore reality.
Exactly what happens when you watch too many Youtube videos from the right
Anfita haven't been around that long yet, give it time.
You can't say they are just as violent as white supermacists based on the assumption that in the future they might kill as many people.
Maybe your prediction turns out correct and they start massacring hoards of people the way some white supermacists have (can't see it personally) but until that happens it's a terrible comparison.
ANTIFA currently peaks at punching and milkshaking people, poor behaviour but a million miles away from mass murder.
1970's. in the U.S. not recent.
The length of time an organization or movement is around for does not make for a predictor of inclination towards violence.
All you are left with is a desire to see a group commit violent horrifying acts as it suits you're political agenda and narrative.
Yet their reputation IS one of violence and intimidation. One they have earned.
No denying that or excusing it and they are subject to arrest for engaging in the type of violence they do.
Terrorist designation would involve taking resources and man power away from investigating groups who are actively engaged in acts of terror, act like a terrorist group and are investigated by officers trained to identify and investigate terrorist networks.
Instead they would be investigated a loose network of people engaged in street violence, a different area of crime which will have its own specialist officers.
No issue with getting tough on street crime or its causes. Antifa disrupts life, engages in violence and intimidation and should be subject to investigation and arrest like any group engaged in this form of thuggery.
Not left leaning then, just right and centre. Is everything a CT with you or are you saying you've never searched left leaning so don't know?
The whole point of the YT algorithm is to keep you watching and so viewing ads. So yeah if you're into right it will throw more right and get progressively harder to try and keep you engaged if you keep clicking on them. The same with left.
You guys know there were organisations well before Antifa? At least in the UK. Groups like, Anti Nazi League, Anti Fascist Action, Red Action etc. There is a long history of violent confrontations with their political enemies.
Yes I also made the point Antifa started life in America in the 70s/ 80's and are not a recent organization.
Anti Nazi League were a Socialist Workers party thing and did not advocate street violence. Their enemies were actual fascists and they disbanded when the B. N. P. went into decline.
I notice you use the term 'political enemies' rather than Neo Nazis. Rather a lot of the B.N.P supporters were skinheads who are of course famed for their peace loving ways and dislike of violence and random racist attacks.
Nazi's and Neo Nazis are so well known for advocating a policy of tolerance, peace and love and are simple the victims of smears and attack by their violent and unhinged political opponents.
Separate names with a comma.