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Are Youtube algorithms leading to a resurgence of the right?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by VincentHanna, Aug 19, 2019.

  1. BowdonUK

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 2,822

    I noticed that. I was pointing out to other people that the anti nazi movement wasn't only an American thing.

    I'll stick to the topic even though your post was tempting me down another path :)

    If all the majority of the left do is talk to themselves, want other people banned off the platform, then its no wonder they are losing the youtube algorithms. The left today seem to be mostly reactionary and take the low negative road in most arguments i.e. punch a nazi, and milkshaking people, to give just two examples.

    I remember when I was a young man, just turned voting age in 1995. I'd lived under a Tory government nearly since birth. By the 1997 general election the mood was that the country had become stale and "the grey man" John Major had to go. At that time the left were full of ideas. I considered myself mostly related to the left. Major and the Tories had to go. Blairs election was all about positivity and people who didn't normally vote, or normally vote Labour voted. Now 22 years later and it seems to be all about negativity. I like some of the arguments put forward by the left but its possible to get too much negativity that people turn off. There is a similar thing happening on the right too. But the right will debate anyone, which mixes it up. An algorithm means anyone can use it. The left needs to become more open, present a positive vision of the future and invite people from all views to the table to debate them, or at least talk about issues together and work through the debate.
     
  2. efish

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 11, 2014

    Posts: 1,366

    The Conservative movement has been more effective at targeting younger people on you tube. Liberals and the left have not engaged in the same move.

    I think one of the big fails is the way arguments are presented in binary terms by both left and right. Not familiar with right or left wing channels on you tube, but it is a thing and I would suspect both sides are engaging in this form of nonsense on you tube as it is so wide spread online.
    Personally in real life I never come across this sort of thing. Most people in my community are either slightly left of center or slightly to the right.

    Its weird watching it all on t.v. or online then you walk out the door people are normal and for the most part polite reasonable folks trying to do the best for themselves their family and their community.
    It strikes me a lot of what I see and read is somewhat detached from reality and everyday life.

    Fantasy and at its most extreme an apocalyptic fantasy like Star wars where the Evil Empire is to be defeated by the forces of light.
     
  3. BowdonUK

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 2,822

    I agree on that. Most 'normal' people dont even have an opinion on matters of the day, and as we see on some game shows some people don't even know who the prime minister is or are able to name any prime minister.
     
  4. Thecaferacer

    Hitman

    Joined: Feb 3, 2019

    Posts: 747

    Couldn't agree more. My timeline mirrors yours and remember how stagnant and old fashioned the Tories were by the time they were booted out in 97 when I first voted. The whole mood was cool Britannia, the music was awesome, film industry was kicking out bangers, we had the best comedy (Now considered political incorrect) and artists in the world, cutting edge for technology etc. There was so much optimism then and the left was leading it

    Now they feel like self obsessed vicious idealogues who run off doomsday predictions to force people to listen to them, vote this way or you'll get Nazis, do exactly what we tell you or the environment will explode, we will ruin your career unless you think what we think in relation to LGBTQHYCPXVLOT Issues etc.

    I speak to so many people now who always considered themselves centre left who now believe they have been labelled right wing by the current left
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2019
  5. BowdonUK

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 2,822

    This is very true. They have taken a victim mentality, even this thread is more of them playing the victim. Back in the day it was the left that was progressive and dynamic, always coming out with new ideas and new ways to use technology. Now the low IQ people have jumped on the trendy bandwagon and brought the level of intelligence down to mob level. As an excuse for the mob level not being able to think for themselves they go around blaming everyone else for their failures.

    There is no reason why the left can't use algorithms to promote their vision of the world, just like the right do.
     
  6. Thecaferacer

    Hitman

    Joined: Feb 3, 2019

    Posts: 747

    I wonder if it's the result of having a society where life is too good that certain people start inventing problems.
     
  7. efish

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 11, 2014

    Posts: 1,366

    You're comments do seem to support the conclusion that we are living in a period of increased polarization in politics.

    I always had ' its all the fault of my opponents stupid' as the same old politics of the old school ideological weasel; accept no responsibility, everything done by party X is wonderful it is all the fault of party Y they are all spartan pigs and Saracen dogs.
    Fairy tale front used by the ideological pure, its as old as the hills and used by both left and right.

    Was one of the lies of Blair and his age of cool, that we were going to see a new grown up form of politics that would confine the old school tribal chest beating to the history books.

    It never happened.

    Personally I don't disagree with the idea that the left has no new ideas, I don't think the Right has either.

    I grew up under Thatcher, always voted to keep the Conservatives out of office as they have always had a weakness in regard to devolution which was essential to maintain the union and their social policy has always been to extreme for my taste.

    Never supported the party I voted for, lesser of two evils. I don't trust politicians of either the left or right, tribal, they will accept no responsibility for failure and always scapegoat and the goal is always short term, obtaining and maintaining power at all cost.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2019
  8. Mason-

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 18, 2010

    Posts: 5,308

    Location: Essex

    The internet in general leads to growth of fringe views.

    Imagine life without the internet, you're a person who lives in a town/village, you have inclinations towards far-right/far-left/extremist views. Your views are so extreme that you don't know anybody who shares those views. You speak to your friends about it, they all disagree, some are so abhorred they disregard you as a friend. You're isolated with your extremist views, to the point where you never discuss them and you begin to doubt your own views.

    Imagine life now with the internet, you're a person who lives in a town/village, you have inclinations towards far-right/far-left/extremist views. You haven't met anybody in real life who shares your views but you find a facebook group, or social media site that has similar views to your own. You talk about it, you feel more confident and assured in your views because someone says to you "I agree with you man!". The fact that all of these individuals, 1 in every village and town in the UK and the world, can now talk to each other and 'group' up gives them a presence and a power. It means that they can collectively make their arguments more convincing, this means you can now recruit more people to your cause. Your extreme views are now more mainstream.

    This is the reality of why politics nowadays is so much more polarising, and if this trend of people spending more time communicating with the wider world rather than their local community continues. It will only get stronger.

    Most revolutions of the past started small, local and spread, nowadays if there is to be a revolution it will be a sparse revolution, with representatives of the revolution across the country.
     
  9. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 19,370

    I don't remember that happening even 10 years ago though...remember how optimistic everything seemed during the 2012 London Olympics? And that was deep in to a recession.

    It's only happened fairly recently. Since Facebook/Twitter/Youtube and the prevalence of smart phones.
     
  10. Mason-

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 18, 2010

    Posts: 5,308

    Location: Essex

    Simply: 10 years ago the only people on the internet were techy people and young people. It was when people used facebook and bebo and myspace to talk to each other. I don't remember seeing political things on facebook when I first joined in 2009. Nowadays, every man and his dog is on some social media and people get recruited into views. You go into facebook comments on some political topic and the cardboard cutout similarities you see between arguments from both sides. It's so obvious that they've all watched similar videos or read the same thing. It's scary how robotic it is.

    If we had a paternal government and I was that patriarch I would ban social media 'for the good of society'. Not that I'd ever support myself getting into a position to do so. What I'm saying is, I think the world would be a better place without social media.
     
  11. V F

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 13, 2003

    Posts: 15,867

    Location: UK

    Yeah, I don't remember hearing all this far right extremist label/branding until 2010 onwards. Even before the Internet I never once heard it from people locally going as far back to 1988.

    All I can remember, the worst of the Internet happened from 2008 when every tom, dick and harry got an iPhone with twitter and facebook. As well as all the cesspit journalists and politicians hijacked it all. Look where we are today. At everyones throats.
     
  12. BowdonUK

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 2,822

    I remember when immigration was only whispered about in private conversations, in the 90s. It was a very fringe issue. It was rumoured that the main parties had agreed not to use immigation as a political issue during elections. Then the BNP came on the scene continually going on about immigration that the big parties also had to address it, and predictably got in to an argument about numbers.

    On the topic of the thread. I was recently pointed to this video by Peter Tatchell that is called "What's Wrong With The Left?".

    He's literally saying what I've said about the failure of the Left to be progressive and open, and have ended up being a reactionary force that hardly ever gives the alternative view. If they did these things then I believe there wouldn't be a resurgence specifically of the right. It would be an equal resurgence across the board.


    What's Wrong With The Left? | Full Talk | Peter Tatchell
     
  13. BowdonUK

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 2,822

    This is a quote from a previous post I made on this thread. I thought I'd update it to say that Contrapoints as now been driven off Youtube because of other leftiest attacking her. From what I gather all she said was that with some of the movements today in the trans-community that she feels shes from the 90s era. Now her giving her personal view as been deemed as her attacking everyone else and the insuing hate mob attacks, from the so-called tolarent people, have forced her to shut down her youtube channel. It is this narrow minded attitude by a crazy element of the left, that is mostly going unchecked, that is destroying the left these days.
     
  14. efish

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 11, 2014

    Posts: 1,366

    Factionalism has always been an issue at the extreme ideological edge of both right and left.

    They are not given to pragmatism or ideological flexibility and have difficulty accepting difference.

    An extreme example I recall was an extremist Moroccan Muslim party with a small number of members, started at a around 30 before they all started murdering each other in an attempt to establish who was the most ideological pure.

    Party literally ended with one man left standing.

    This has been a common fault line of the far left for decades but also the far right. Dogmatic inflexible stance taken by many at both extreme ends of the political spectrum.
     
  15. Judgeneo

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 15, 2010

    Posts: 10,013

    Location: Out of Coventry

    Youtube in general has been trying 'derank' political content, and has been fairly heavy handed in demonetising content which might be political or otherwise controversial in nature. I'm not convinced by any measure that they're somehow biased (consciously or not) towards the right wing.

    The question I would have, is why is only youtube accused of such right-wing bias? Facebook I think is neutral, but twitter is predomentaly left, as is tumbler, and reddit.

    If the right wing is truly dominant on youtube, could this be because other reasons than bias?
     
  16. Thecaferacer

    Hitman

    Joined: Feb 3, 2019

    Posts: 747

    From what I can see the right wing content is generally better produced, well researched, more level pitched and just nicer to watch. I've seen a few left wing productions and with the exception of a few individuals it's almost unwatchable. The Young Turks are a prime example of that screeching, narcissistic non-fact based ranting that the left think the right produce.

    I also think a lot of centre or centre left content has been incorrectly labeled right wing.
     
  17. neckbeardthethird

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Oct 9, 2018

    Posts: 1,024

    This but the complete opposite, truly boggles the mind that someone can think right wing youtube on average produces more well produced and researched content. The biggest right wing channels are all obvious grift channels. Sargon, Rubin, Crowder etc. Now compare the quality of their content to people like Contrapoints, Kulinsku, Packman etc who are 3 of the biggest lefty you tubers... it's night and day difference in terms of who presents more well researched, well articulated and level headed content. Sargon, Rubin & Crowder come across as thick people trying to be smart.

    Thats not to say lefty youtube doesn't have crap channels as well such as The Young turks etc

    The reason right wing youtube wins is because there is simply just way more of it and it gets pumped out at a way faster rate with minimal effort because so many people have worked out how easy it is to make money out of all this anti SJW lowest common denominator content that young kids/adults now lap up. I highly doubt there are lots kids on youtube being turned into conservatives through highbrow debate although I'm sure there are some... far more likely is the lowest common denominator click bait SJW content that sucks them in.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
  18. Thecaferacer

    Hitman

    Joined: Feb 3, 2019

    Posts: 747

    the Rubin report is right wing grift? Yeah ok....
     
  19. neckbeardthethird

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Oct 9, 2018

    Posts: 1,024

    Imagine thinking it's not. Have you been living in a cave ? The guy is pure grift, one look at his twitter feed and its incredibly obvious, it's just constant examples of the left being bad but complete radio silence towards any criticism of the right.

    You'll never see him be objective on anything or criticise the right because that's not what the Koch brothers are/were paying him to do. His entire career now revolves around the narrative 'left bad' as that's all his audience want to hear.

    One of the most obvious signs of his grift is that he likes to go on about being all about debate but then ducks debates with numerous lefties when challenged (something his buddy Crowder is very good at doing as well) instead deciding to cherry pick the occasional 'safe' lefty for his show, and even when he has lefties on the main source of conversation with them is usually about the left being bad :p

    His show is just a safe space for conservative thought, which is fine... but call it what it is, don't come with this grift that you're all about 'open debate'.

    It pains me to think there are still people actually falling for the idea that he's a good faith debater/political commentator. He's one of the most obvious hacks out there.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
  20. Thecaferacer

    Hitman

    Joined: Feb 3, 2019

    Posts: 747

    Hyperbolic much? He's a chat show host not an academic. I suppose his interviews with Tulsi Gabbard and Andrew Yang are proof of his neo-nazi tendancies

    I also enjoy those far right academics he regularly has on like Bret and Eric Weinstein
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019