Arsenal FC - A complete shambles. What needs to change? *Please read OP before posting*

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Don
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Thread reopened to discuss the Wenger/Kroenke situation only.

Do not post spoilers or specific game talk in here and do not turn this into a transfer thread. I understand there will be some overlap but any post where the main point is transfer related will be deleted and sanctioned as per the OP as will any post that could be interpreted as a spoiler.

Due to the issues within the Arsenal thread, the same strike system will be implemented here:

Strike 1 - 7 day thread ban
Strike 2 - 30 day thread ban and 1 week forum suspension
Strike 3 - Permanent thread ban and 2 week forum suspension
 
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Don
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Yea, the poll wasn't exactly serious. You're more than welcome to write a post detailing who you think is to blame and what needs to be done to turn things around.
 
Soldato
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I think Kroenke definitely has a part to play in this but Arsenal have spent a lot of money on transfers and wages, the personnel acquired appears to lay solely at the feet of Wenger. The fact we have glaring holes in our squad and that he can no longer motivate the very players he bought is enough for me to think we need a change. Some of our performances this season especially but not exclusively against the bigger teams have been pathetic. We need a shake up all the way through the club, backroom, medical etc. Kroenke isn't going anywhere but the others should be.
 
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I think Kroenke definitely has a part to play in this but Arsenal have spent a lot of money on transfers and wages, the personnel acquired appears to lay solely at the feet of Wenger. The fact we have glaring holes in our squad and that he can no longer motivate the very players he bought is enough for me to think we need a change. Some of our performances this season especially but not exclusively against the bigger teams have been pathetic. We need a shake up all the way through the club, backroom, medical etc. Kroenke isn't going anywhere but the others should be.

Do you not think the atmosphere over the last couple of years has impacted the club negatively?
 
Soldato
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We have a chairman with no interest in winning, a manager who has been great for the club over the years but is perhaps past his prime, players on contracts that far exceed their worth and a fan based divided. We're completely and utterly ******.
 
Don
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I mentioned something in one of the threads a week or 2 back, occasionally managers find themselves in a position where there's no longer anything they can do - the end of Rodgers time at Liverpool, Moyes at Utd, Ranieri this season and even Mourinho last season at Chelsea. Sometimes managers just go stale, sometimes the players just need a new voice giving them instructions because nothing that manager will do will work.

Wenger looks lost to me. I think Neville made the point the other week on Sky - even over the last 10 years when Arsenal haven't truly competed, they've always had an identity. They were the best footballing side in the league and even the teams that would eventually go on to win the league would go to the Emirates and know they had to dig in because if they tried to out play Arsenal they'd come unstuck. That's no longer the case now and probably hasn't been for a few seasons. All the calls for Wenger to be more pragmatic has led to Arsenal no longer having an identity and to make things worse, they still haven't fixed any of their weaknesses.

Even if Wenger could work what needs to be done to rectify Arsenal's problems, I just don't see how he can implement them. He's lost the support of too many of the players and more importantly too many of the supporters. Arsenal have become a toxic club and no matter how good a run they go on, all the anger will spill over the second they have another poor result and I can't see how that will ever change.
 
Soldato
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I mentioned something in one of the threads a week or 2 back, occasionally managers find themselves in a position where there's no longer anything they can do - the end of Rodgers time at Liverpool, Moyes at Utd, Ranieri this season and even Mourinho last season at Chelsea. Sometimes managers just go stale, sometimes the players just need a new voice giving them instructions because nothing that manager will do will work.

Wenger looks lost to me. I think Neville made the point the other week on Sky - even over the last 10 years when Arsenal haven't truly competed, they've always had an identity. They were the best footballing side in the league and even the teams that would eventually go on to win the league would go to the Emirates and know they had to dig in because if they tried to out play Arsenal they'd come unstuck. That's no longer the case now and probably hasn't been for a few seasons. All the calls for Wenger to be more pragmatic has led to Arsenal no longer having an identity and to make things worse, they still haven't fixed any of their weaknesses.

Even if Wenger could work what needs to be done to rectify Arsenal's problems, I just don't see how he can implement them. He's lost the support of too many of the players and more importantly too many of the supporters. Arsenal have become a toxic club and no matter how good a run they go on, all the anger will spill over the second they have another poor result and I can't see how that will ever change.

I have to agree with your post, last year was the first time I really felt like we'd lost our identity, that feeling went away for the first half of the season right up until the Everton game... but then we collapsed harder than I've ever seen before and I just don't think Arsene knows the way out. From what I read he is working harder than ever, but I think the switch to 3-4-3 just highlights how close he is to running out of ideas and the fact he is just clutching at straws. I will also love the guy for what he has done at the club, I will always respect him and his belief that he can pull us out of this, but I just don't think he can do it anymore. Its not the way I wanted to see his reign end, but I feel that its now time for him to go.

In a lot of ways I have sympathy for Wenger, he has been hung out to dry by Kroenke and Gazidis, bearing the full brunt of the criticism. At no point has our owner ever made noises about silverware, our chief executive made a bull**** the fans will decide statement on Wengers fate. At the time when Kroenke came on board I was pleased, as I was fearful of what Usmanov being in charge would mean for the club, now the more I find out about Stan and the way he runs his franchises I often wonder if the old shareholders made the wrong choice.

And then we come to our fans... the most divided fanbase in the premier league, infighting in the stands and complete lack of atmosphere at the Emirates. I've been an Arsenal fan since I followed football, but in my teenage years I had a season ticket for West Ham as the ground was 10 minutes walk from my door, I've never understood how 26000 fans at Upton Park could make 5x the noise than I ever heard at Highbury or at the Emirates. Arsenal were always known for having "quiet" fans, I remember the old "Highbury is a Library" chants, but the Emirates is an absolute joke, there is just no atmosphere, no backing for the team, by the end of the game 75% of the fans are already on their way home.

There are more things I could talk about, ArsenalFanTV, the way that going to Arsenal feels more like a "Corporate Experience" day than a trip to watch the football, etc etc, but I've never felt less connected to the club I've supported since I was 8 years old. Tough times are ahead I think.
 
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^ goods posts from you two, certainly better than the constant Wenger bashing we usually hear.

I say he should be given a go at the PL without Europe, but at the end of the day, if the fans are properly divided, it's hard to see a way out for him. If everyone could get behind the club like Leicester last season, have no Europe and just concentrate on the league, i still believe the squad can do it.
 
Soldato
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Do you not think the atmosphere over the last couple of years has impacted the club negatively?

It absolutely has and I really disagree with that kind of stuff when you should be supporting the team. That atmosphere is caused by year after year of rinse repeat seasons though with no sign of improvement or change, the atmosphere is now just exacerbating it to the point that I think his position has become untenable.
 
Soldato
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I'm going to say although they all play their part surely most of the problem is Wenger. He is in charge of recruitment, training, tactics etc...

He has the biggest say at the club at the moment.
 
Caporegime
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^ goods posts from you two, certainly better than the constant Wenger bashing we usually hear.

I say he should be given a go at the PL without Europe, but at the end of the day, if the fans are properly divided, it's hard to see a way out for him. If everyone could get behind the club like Leicester last season, have no Europe and just concentrate on the league, i still believe the squad can do it.


Really? The end of the season is when it gets really busy. The tough months when you are involved in europe come when you have carling/fa cup games and sometimes replays throw off the schedule then extra euro games late in the season, this results in a bunch of rescheduled games happening. Arsenal haven't been in that situation for some time, we don't get past Feb in europe.

At any stage Wenger can choose to prioritise the league and hasn't done so one year yet.

The atmosphere hasn't had an effect because nothing on the field has changed in the past 5 years, 10 years really, same mistakes, same tactics, same type of players he favour, same lacking mentality, same lacking leadership. How can you blame it on the past couple of years when nothing has changed in far far longer than that?

Also the current trend is for guys like Trusty to blame Kroenke. Here's a hint, again, he takes basically no money out of the club. Owners who want to take the money out of the club.... do, those who don't.... don't. How you can blame Kroenke when the fans have consistently backed Wenger and given the board no reason and no real option to fire Wenger. When the majority of fans are happy with giving Wenger another contract then firing him would be the thing that angered the fans. The fans have lapped this up and made excuse after excuse. Oh, he had less money because of the stadium, oh, his best players have to be sold every year, blah blah blah. None of this is true, we've increased spending every year since the move, Wenger chooses a huge wage budget rather than a huge transfer kitty. Wenger chooses to give players who never play 60-80k a week rather than getting shot of the useless players and spending that money on new players instead. How long did we keep Diaby, or Rosicky around doing next to nothing? The idea that they might magically get over their injuries?

Wenger changed, not Kroenke, not the board's management style, not the finances available to the manager(negatively, that is, the amount Wenger can spend has pretty much tripled at this point and Wenger spends that). Rather than link to articles about what Kroenke has done to other clubs and how other clubs fans hate him... why not actually say specifically what he's done wrong at Arsenal, because pointing to someone else hating him for something he did elsewhere is absolutely not proof that he's doing the same things with Arsenal.

Actually look up our publicly available financial records, look at where the cash is going, look what has happened to the wage bill, look at debt repayments, look at how much cash is in the Arsenal account that wenger refuses to use and that the board do not take money out of(though they are absolutely entitled to do so if they want).

Lastly who cares if the squad can given less games and huge support... win the league, we're paying 70-80% more in wages than Spurs, the entire reason to have a better paid larger squad is to cope with more games. If you have a 190mil a year wage budget and can ONLY compete in one competition, then you're failing. LIkewise if we're focusing too much on europe and not enough on the league, how are the team so damn bad in the round of 16 every year?
 
Soldato
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Players are not good enough, needs another striker, fullback a couple of Centerbacks, holding midfielder and hold onto Ozil/Sanchez. Wenger out could be the way forward but he also hasn't had the tools to get them above the top 4 spots, it annoys me when people blame Wenger alone, it isn't all on him.
 
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