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Article 13 of the EU copyright reform proposal rejected but they push ahead anyway

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by humbug, May 31, 2018.

  1. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 29,580

    Despite member states objecting to EU proposed Article 13 copyright reform to monitor and filter content they are pushing ahead anyway because: we know better what's good for you than you do and your national government and this isn't a democracy anyway so get used to us dictating your lives.
    And these people wonder why half of the EU is looking for the exit.

    What does this mean for us?

    Anything you link to anything that is not your own work this proposal will have you fall foul of it, so for example if you create a meme of a Darth Vader you will be in breach under EU copyright laws.

    And no one knows where the line is actually drawn, if you stream a game and the developer of said game decides that they want paying for you using their content to further your own Twitch career then under these EU copyright rules you might be sent a bill or have your content removed.

    If Channel 4 don't like you fact checking their news reports or using their own content against them... as was done recently with the Cathy Newman vs Jordan Peterson train wreck then they can use these new UE copyright laws to shut you up.

    And because no one is going to employ ten of millions of people to pre-approve your content an algorithm will do it, and we all know that means if you're not an EU approved content creator you don't actually get to make any content unless you're nothing more than a talking head.

    With the stroke of a dictators pen the EU will kill the internet as we know it, it is how they will sensor the Internet, state controlled TV no longer works because no one watches TV anymore, people go to the Internet and this is how they will control it.

    The fact is most member states have rejected this, but this being the EU they are pushing ahead anyway.

    Stuff like this makes my blood boil, i didn't have a chance to elect a single one of these idiots, none of them are elected so we cannot vote them out, so we vote ourselves out!



    https://www.liberties.eu/en/news/delete-article-thirteen-open-letter/13194


    https://edri.org/files/copyright/copyright_proposal_article13.pdf
     
  2. solado

    Gangster

    Joined: Dec 23, 2010

    Posts: 209

    Location: Uk

    The ridiculous cookie tracking policy that was back in 2011? Was the start of it.

    Iv'e been reading some posts on Reddit about Article 13 and I know politicians don't understand the internet but this is ASKING for damages to be caused, why can't they just leave well alone?
     
  3. Evangelion

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 29, 2007

    Posts: 21,435

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    Firstly, this is just a proposal. Secondly, they've been working on it since at least February 2017 and it's still in the revision process (it hasn't even been voted on yet). They are not 'pushing ahead with it anyway.'

    I'm not saying it's a good proposal, but pretending this is some kind of wildly draconian law currently being forced upon nations against their will is simply absurd.
     
  4. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 29,580

    We will see.
     
  5. Herojuana

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Nov 24, 2007

    Posts: 1,260

    Location: Lancashire

    Sorry, made other thread..
    Forget The GDPR, The EU's New Copyright Proposal Will Be A Complete And Utter Disaster For The Internet
    https://www.techdirt.com/articles/2...ill-be-complete-utter-disaster-internet.shtml


    Among independent academics, “there is scientific consensus that Article 13 cannot be allowed to stand”, the leading European centres researching IP and innovation law find. According to expert analysis, the Commission proposal is…

    • Incompatible with existing EU law: The E-Commerce Directive forbids general monitoring obligations, which even the European Parliament Research Service says Article 13 would establish. Other premises of Article 13 are also unsupported by existing law and jurisprudence, including the assertion that platforms “optimizing the presentation” of uploaded content become liable for infringements. [Sources: Study 1, Open letter, Study 2, Study 3, EPRS]
    • Incompatible with the Charter of Fundamental Rights as interpreted by the ECJ: It violates the principle of a fair balance between competing fundamental rights laid out by the European Court of Justice in case law. [Open letter, Study]
    • Ambiguously worded and inconsistent: Even the official German translation contains differences that significantly alter the meaning of some provisions.
    This [law] will lead to excessive filtering and deletion of content and limit the freedom to impart information on the one hand, and the freedom to receive information on the other.
    57 signatories representing fundamental rights organisations, including Human Rights Watch and Reporters without Borders

    States and intergovernmental organizations should refrain from establishing laws or arrangements that would require the “proactive” monitoring or filtering of content, which is both inconsistent with the right to privacy and likely to amount to pre-publication censorship.
    United Nations Human Rights Council report


    Campaigns against this provision:


      • Save Your Internet: “Stand up and ask Europe to protect Your Internet” (offers contact-your-MEP tool)
      • Say No to Online Censorship by the Civil Liberties Union for Europe: “Act now! It’s about our freedom to speak. It’s about censorship.” (offers email-your-MEP tool)
      • #SaveTheMeme,referring to parodies and other expressions of web culture that may be removed by such filtering technology
      • Create•Refresh: “These changes put the power of small, independent creators in jeopardy. Creative expression will effectively be censored, leaving only the bigger, more established players protected. Many of the sites that we use every day for information or entertainment may cease to exist.”


    Advocate reactions: “An affront to the rule of law and freedom of expression” (Wide alliance of organisations working on human and consumer rights), “Privatised censorship” (EDRi), “very negative impacts on the internet” (OpenRights Group), “violates fundamental rights” (Communia), “neither balanced nor sensible” (EFF), “excessive measure” (Austrian coalition of NGOs and stakeholders), “will disable the use of copyright exceptions” (Polish NGO coalition), “serious concerns” (BEUC)

    EU Directive SPELLS DISASTER for Internet Freedom (youtube clip)





    Overview from a Pirate Party MEP's website
    https://juliareda.eu/eu-copyright-reform/censorship-machines/


    Tweet from Julia Reda - Pirate Party MEP on 29th May 2018:
    German Christian Democrats are using 'mafia methods' to stop their European party colleagues from voting against the #LinkTax. Knowing they have all the facts and experts against them, they resort to threats. #fixcopyright #SavetheLink
    https://twitter.com/Senficon/status/1001514541317066754
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018
  6. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 29,580

    The problem with article 13 is its very poorly written, its completely ambiguous and open to agenda driven interpretation.

    You can be sure when politicians to that its never incompetence or a mistake, its very much intended and that should tell you what their intentions actually are.
     
  7. Zethor

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 13, 2013

    Posts: 4,291

    Firstly, I will address your ramblings, with the suggestion that next the time you try to make a point, it's best to avoid vomiting EU hate because it weakens your argument.

    Every single member of the European Commission is chosen by the member states, through a democratic process similar to the democratic process that lead to the creation of, say, May's cabinet. No one voted for May (except the members of her own party), yet she miraculously leads the country. So you're right that the EU is not a true(direct) democracy but neither is the UK. Or France. Or Canada. They are all representative democracies and so is the EU.

    Show me where you found this "fact".

    Who are "they"? Who are the dictators? The members of the EU Commission? The ones chosen BY the member states which are lead by politicians who belong to parties who get the direct votes of EU citizens?

    You don't understand what the EU is, how it operates, how the officials are chosen/elected and how voters are represented in it. Have a read here, it should help with your disorientation.


    Secondly, the topic at hand is a proposal, a draft written by the EU commission. In order for it to become law it must be presented to the Parliament (which is elected directly) and the Council (heads of state/government) and then it must pass a vote. Both the Council and the Parliament can change, make amendments to or block this proposal. I've read the draft and yes there are parts that leave room for interpretation but those parts will probably change by the time a final draft is put forward. So don't drink the Kool-Aid yet, let's see how this pans out first. I would also suggest writing to your EU rep but that would be pointless as Britons have chosen to not have a say on such matters from now on.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018
  8. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 29,580

    So you agree none of these people are elected by the people whose lives they affect. using May as an arguments is weak and misleading, we can vote her out, we cannot vote out any of the EU cabinet, they appoint eachother.

    Germany's government is sharing power with a political party that wants to leave, Italy's vote was split between two political parties who both want to leave, Austria and various other northern EU member states like Poland are becoming increasingly Euro sceptic, to the point where they are refusing to follow EU legislation..... what about Greece?

    The unelected EU politicians imposing their ideals on us.

    Better than you it would seem.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018
  9. Zethor

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 13, 2013

    Posts: 4,291

    May isn't an argument, she is an example. My argument is the EU works like any other representative democracy, they don't appoint each other and they can and do get voted out just like the representatives of all other Western democracies.


    Germany's government consists of CDU/CSU and SPD, all of which are pro-EU. The AFD, which you probably referred to, accounts for just 12% of the seats in the Bundestag and they do NOT want to leave, they oppose further integration and expansion of the EU. Italy's vote was split between many political parties, none of which want to leave. The Five Star Movement, the most eurosceptic of Italy's largest parties, has toned down its anti-EU rhetoric during the past two years and one of their leaders, Luigi di Magio had this to say a month ago: "The European Union is the Five Star Movement's home". I won't even go into Poland and Greece as you clearly failed to do your basic homework regarding the politics of these countries or you would not have reached the ridiculous conclusion that "half of them" want to leave the EU.


    Some of them are elected, others are chosen by elected politicians, just like any other government in the Western world.

    I've shown why I am right and you are wrong and I supported by arguments with undisputable facts. You're beating a dead horse here and you're embarrassing yourself.
     
  10. Gigabit

    Mobster

    Joined: Apr 9, 2012

    Posts: 11,694

    This is how misinformation starts. This is a proposal for **** sake, you know, what our Government should have done before Brexit.
     
  11. Tefal

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: Jun 30, 2007

    Posts: 66,441

    Location: Wales

    quicjk quesrtion happy to be proved wrong but what primaryu cabinatet is voted on by politicians ather than the elertroprte outside of the eu council
     
  12. Tefal

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: Jun 30, 2007

    Posts: 66,441

    Location: Wales


    our government should have proposed a wholey undemocratcis and unworkable law beofr brexit?

    why pray tell?
     
  13. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 29,580

    I know that, your argument completely side steps what i said, i'll put it another way, i didn't vote for Juncker, did you vote for Junker? no. he was appointed by the European Parliament.


    You say that as if 12% is a small representation, i don't know what the other 3 have each but i bet its not a huge amount more. AFD stands for (Alternative for Germany)

    Read this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_for_Germany

    They are a nationalist party founded on its disapproval carrying other weaker EU states, they may say they are not anti EU but they do that because for now it suits them as a political defence.
    The fact is they have nationalist populist policies and with that they got a significant amount of the vote.

    UKIP got 13% of the vote and that was enough for the Tory's to take note and with that we are where we are at.

    I think the rest of the western world would take offence to that, but in the UK that's certainly true, and with that i also think the House of Lords should be consigned to history. it also is an institution of mates giving eachother unchallenged political power despite the reproach of democracy.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018
  14. Gigabit

    Mobster

    Joined: Apr 9, 2012

    Posts: 11,694

    Is this English? Can somebody translate?
     
  15. Gigabit

    Mobster

    Joined: Apr 9, 2012

    Posts: 11,694

    Best to stay in the EU and reform it from the inside. You seem to have a lot of issues with it, so I suggest you stand for election and reform it.

    Oh wait.
     
  16. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 29,580

    lol :D
     
  17. Herojuana

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Nov 24, 2007

    Posts: 1,260

    Location: Lancashire

    I don't understand why centralising power away from a native population towards a central, remote and less accountable authority is not worrisome to some people. Do we not believe corruption can exist in the 21st century?

    I'd love for it to work honestly, but the goal of the key bureaucrats is to have the tail (EU authority) wagging the dogs (nation states). This was supposed to be a trade union and now it's working towards a 'defence force'. They are all corruptible, fallible people like ourselves who are drunk on this dream of integrating and creating an efficient system with the ends justifying the means. I don't blame them for that, it's human nature. Utopian visions have gotten us all in trouble before now though and it's time to sober up and have a reality check
     
  18. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 11,542

    I'm guessing anything anti-EUSSR will somehow be seen as "copyright infringement" in future and shut down? :p

    Probably a lot of brown envelopes from the music industry on this one...
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018