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Asking VP930 owners. Do I have a defective monitor?

Discussion in 'Monitors' started by carebear, Dec 28, 2005.

  1. carebear

    Associate

    Joined: Dec 22, 2005

    Posts: 7

    Before owning a VP930b I was using a SyncMaster 712N. So i know what LCDs are like.

    The problem I am getting with this VP930 is really bad ghosting/smearing/trailing (what ever you want to call it) on pure black. But this happens only under certain circumstances. I didn't notice anything when playing WoW or GuildWars and even Doom 3. But about 2 weeks in owning this monitor I wanted to finish F.E.A.R. and thats when I noticed it. In fact, its very hard not to miss it because I get it everywhere. For example: guns lying on the floor and details on the wall that have pure black in it. The ghosting is really just a comet trail of black, no real details in the ghosting.

    When this was noticed I really started to look for in other games. I can get this in WoW but only in certain areas. Like the Auction Room in Orgrimmar. It can happen when other players are wearing some armour with black or very deep colour. But if i follow them outside of the auction room the ghosting is gone. I can also get this Counter Strike Source. Like in tunnels or indoor rooms that are sort of dark.

    Can any other VP930 owners duplicate this ghosting? I put in a RMA with the buyer just incase this is a defect.

    Now since I'm here talking about the VP930 I might as well do a mini review. I'm doing this review ignoring the ghosting/trailing of black. Right now I am assuming this is a defect since no one, on forums or reviews, have mentioned this.

    My previous monitor is a 712N my samsung. The specs are 17", analog, 12ms response, 600 contrast, 300 brightness. Some of my review will be comparing this 712N with the VP930b which I have setup in clone mode.

    Out of the box this monitor is too warm and the greys have a pink hue to them. So after different calibrations I finally settled on 7500K colour temp. and a brightness of 32 and a contrast of 53. The constrast level is actually really important because i found that grey levels are greatly affected by the contrast. Any higher then 53 in contrast, greys will take on a pink hue. Too high a contrast and greys will turn to white.

    So now that this calibrated the way i like it. I have to say this monitor has excellent Image Quality. Compared to my 712N this is a vivid and clear looking monitor. My 712N looks white washed compared to VP930. Blacks are no where as dark as the VP930 even after any type of adjusting on the 712N. Greys are either too light or too dark on the 712N in the same scene in F.E.A.R. compared to the VP930. When it comes to IQ the VP930 makes me very happy.

    In games the level of motion blur is actually very similar to my 712N. I actually was a little disappointed by this. I was hoping for clear details on moving objects in games but I guess that is the nature of LCDs. Its no worse then the 712N but if it is better its only minor.

    I love looking at this monitor. It is bright and clear and vivid without burning my eyes out. It's really comfortable to look at. Photos look great and movies look good but to be honest if I was to watch movies I watch it on my TV. I can easily recommend this monitor to other people.
     
  2. Baddass

    Don

    Joined: Jan 12, 2003

    Posts: 19,962

    Location: UK

    nice little review there carebear, and welcome to OcUK :D

    Regarding the black trailing, it is highly possible that you are noticing this because of the fact that the black > white transition on the VP930 is actually one of the slowest points for the panel. The grey transitions may have been boosted thanks to overdrive technology, but the ISO point remains pretty much unchanged since the days of the less responsive MVA panels. The problem being that the principal behind overdrive is to apply more voltage than is needed to rotate the crystals. Since the black > white transitions is already the largest change a lliquid crystal would need to make, this already has the maximum voltage applied to it. Therefore there hasn't really been much change from the slower panels before them.

    On the flip side, the Samsung 712N might uses a TN Film panel and the fastest transition on these older non-overdriven panels was the black > white transitions. TN Film panels tend to offer better black > white changes and transitions from black (just have a look at the white writing on black background tests at BeHardware for example). Maybe you are just getting used to the different Technology?

    It is of course entirely possible that you have a defective monitor, and it will be interesting to hear what other owners say. Just trying to provide some theory behind your observations to help :)
     
  3. payingattention

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Nov 23, 2003

    Posts: 1,210

    Location: Liverpool

    I've just been playing WoW and looked for the problem you described, but I can't see it.

    Apart from 3 dead subpixels on mine it is almost perfect; the colours are at least as vivid as on a high-end 19" CRT. There is a slight blurring when turning quickly in FPS games but I don't notice this any more.
     
  4. juno_first

    Mobster

    Joined: Apr 18, 2003

    Posts: 2,544

    Location: Stoke, England

    I just replaced my antique hitachi cml190sxw 12ms with a vp930 & I am well impressed with the contrast / lack of ghosting.

    I don't notice the ghosting anymore in games like cod2 / farcry, not tried other games yet.

    The colours seam fine to me at stock 6500k & C=80 B=50 all looks natural.

    Compared to my old hitachi though, the sharpness in Windows is not as good, I cant tell now i've been looking at it for a while.

    Overall I am very happy with this monitor, I nearly went for the Samsung SM-930BF but was told if i had a dead pixel I was stuck with it but the Viewsonic offer a dead pixel warranty.
     
  5. carebear

    Associate

    Joined: Dec 22, 2005

    Posts: 7

    The 712N is a TN panel. In fact if you look at reviews of 710N or the 172x which have identical specs. The black > white is 12ms but anything grey is up to 25-30ms. But this type of colour trailing is not on my 712N. When I am surfing the net with the VP930 and reading black text on a white background I don't get any black colour trailing at all when scrolling. It blurs but the black text doesn't bleed.

    But a game like F.E.A.R brings this monitor to its knees. The black trailing is just too distracting.

    When I calibrated my monitor I actually used Windows Explorer as an aid. In Windows Explorer on the right pane it lists files in a choosen folder. The background of the file listing is grey. But if calibrated wrong it can be either pink or white or even a blue. This grey was very helpfull. More so then some monitor calibration pictures I have.
     
  6. Baddass

    Don

    Joined: Jan 12, 2003

    Posts: 19,962

    Location: UK

    sorry carebear i don't know where that "might" came from in my first post, it didnt even fit in, and i was trying to say it was a TN Film panel! oops. i was just saying that black > white transitions are not a strong point of a P-MVA panel like that in the VP930, whereas a TN Film panel, even the "slower" 12ms panels are more responsive at this transition. Maybe it's just because of the move from TN to P-MVA technology which you are picking up on. It's a possibility, but i would certainly like to think that it was a fault instead
     
  7. YooEntSinMeROYT

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 25, 2002

    Posts: 2,911

    Location: Location: Location

    I thought the Slo-Mo effects in F.E.A.R. contained a certain amount of deliberate ghosting. Just a thought.
     
  8. carebear

    Associate

    Joined: Dec 22, 2005

    Posts: 7

    It's not slow mo. It happens playing normally. Was hoping someone with this monitor owns FEAR and could confirm or deny this behavior. Even in Counter strike source. A good place is in dust2 in the indoor area right before bomb site B.
     
  9. djohn

    Hitman

    Joined: Oct 7, 2005

    Posts: 619

    Location: Norwich UK

    I've got the VP930 carebear, but unfortunately none of the games as I'm not yet into game playing, but I'd be more than happy to download a demo if you can point me in the right direction of one that would test my monitor for the problems your experiencing.

    I downloaded the demo's from Baddass's link to do the review on the monitor and found it excellent in all areas.
     
  10. carebear

    Associate

    Joined: Dec 22, 2005

    Posts: 7

  11. djohn

    Hitman

    Joined: Oct 7, 2005

    Posts: 619

    Location: Norwich UK

    I'll download it in the morning, not to worry, I'm on a fast connection with no caps or restrictions. I'll play it through then tell you what I think, you can give me some sections to check out if you want as well. I've only got a cheap Graphic card at the moment, bought it just prior to the monitor so that I would have a DVI output and intend to change to a quality one in the next few weeks when I upgrade my system but so far in all movies and the few demos I've tried it looks superb.
     
  12. carebear

    Associate

    Joined: Dec 22, 2005

    Posts: 7

    I'm hoping it is obvious enough for you djohn. But looking at guns on the floor is a good place, particurly on lighter shaded floors. You're looking for a black smearing trail. Like a comet tail of black.
     
  13. Turok

    Associate

    Joined: Dec 27, 2005

    Posts: 25

    POST A PIC FOR US TO KNOW WHAT U MEAN

    Hi
    If u post a pic we will know what u mean, I got mine 4 days ago, and still fooling with it and trying to get the best setting , all is good , only for the light bleeding in the 4 corners whaen u look at a complete black screen!!!
    but I got FEAR and will try it with my sttings , then try it with ** LCD settings!!
    good luck
     
  14. djohn

    Hitman

    Joined: Oct 7, 2005

    Posts: 619

    Location: Norwich UK

    I've downloaded, installed and run the demo carebear and it looks fine to me, but I'm not really sure what I should be looking for. If you can point me to a section of the demo to check out I will and post a screenshot for you to check against yours. Remember I'm only on a cheapo card, Radeon 9600SE £40 bought just or the DVI output so I expect it will look even better when I upgrade shortly , but even with this card, it looks OK to me. :rolleyes:
     
  15. carebear

    Associate

    Joined: Dec 22, 2005

    Posts: 7

    OK here is a modified screen shot of what I am getting. Its pretty close. The faster I move the camera the longer the trails.

    [​IMG]


    Also, here is a screen shot of a red stair case which is pretty dramatic in the trailing I have been talking about. Even moving this picture across your desktop should produce the same results in game. Moving it in a circle makes it easier to see.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2006
  16. dunno

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Mar 25, 2003

    Posts: 1,697

    Location: edinburgh

    I got my 3rd replacement vp930 today and I know what you mean by the smearing effect. To test out my monitor I started playing chaos theory and fear (after i had picked it up from the depot so it was very cold) and i noticed loads of this smearing. I left my monitor on for about an hour and played again and it was gone. I think you just have to let the monitor heat up to get to the optimal temperature or something.