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Astrology: Its just silly right?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by KingOfAquitaine, Jan 17, 2006.

  1. CurlyWhirly

    Wise Guy

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    So do I as every newspaper seems to have a different horoscope.
    If it was genuine then they would all say more or less the same thing.
     
  2. Treefrog

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    Maybe the planets, houses, etc, are just indicators of whatever the influence is, rather than being the influence themselves?
    Would people consider Tarot cards to be in the same light btw?
     
  3. Sudden

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    I hadn't thought of that before. Interesting idea :)


    Tarot cards, I wouldn't raelly put them in the same light as astrology. Tarot card goes towards choice again, I mean if you have a choice of cards and are picking one, then doesn't that mean you can choose your future?

    Then again, my grandfather says that astrology is 20% knowledge of what you are doing and 80% the person himself. Maybe same deal with tarot cards?
     
  4. Treefrog

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    Just an idea that I've heard put forward that no-one has mentioned yet.

    I've given and had quite a few Tarot card readings, and statistically the results are extremely unlikely to be coincidence. Sometimes because the reader and questioner have only met a few minutes before, sometimes because the information is too precise to be chance. Realising of course that generalised advice can apply to the vast majority of people and that 1/12th of the population are e.g. Piscean, and that people can, will, and do interpret readings in light of their own circumstances, it's still more than coincidence in my experience.
    *Groan*
     
  5. mdwh

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    You came to this conclusion after conducting repeated double blind trials, right?

    Anyone who hasn't done so should read up about cold reading. A skilled cold reader can find out facts about a person with leading questions. A person being read will tend to read any vague hits as being accurate ("You had an accident when you were younger?" "Wow, how did you know"), any near hits as being good enough ("And you were under 10?" "Well, 11, but that's close enough"), and completely forget all the misses.

    The accuracy of these tests should not be interpreted by the person being read, but by a third person. There should be a control group of non-"psychics" who are skilled in cold reading, and neither the people being read, or the people interpreting the data, should know which ones are the psychics and which are the cold readers.
     
  6. Treefrog

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    I wouldn't put it in quite those terms, but broadly speaking, yes. But I'm talking about doing a reading rather than fishing for info, especially when I'm having the reading and like to have some sort of evidence to back up what they claim before I'll believe that they are genuine. Like telling someone about a problem their g/f has had in the past which there's no way on God's green earth they would have known about.
    Divination, as I understand it, is about distracting your "vision" by cards or tea leaves or whatever, and so allowing your intuition/clairvoyance/psychism to become active. It works for me though, so I'll stick with it as a working hypothesis until a better one comes along.
     
  7. nero120

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    No its not up to me to prove otherwise, what you believe is up to you. But rest assurd in the knowledge that the small amount of experience Ive had with astrology has made me question whether there is more to our lives than the decisions we make, and the counter arguments presented here have been desperate and unconvincing.
     
  8. nero120

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    Me too!
     
  9. mdwh

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    Sure, and the same goes for the pluto banana believer.
     
  10. nero120

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    Not at all - the pluto banana believer has no reason to believe there is a big bana on pluto, its just a poor argument someone on this thread made up because they have no real argument against astrology. :p
     
  11. mdwh

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    But rest assured in the knowledge that the small amount of experience I've had with bananas has made me question whether there is more to them than just their earthly existance, and the counter arguments presented here have been desperate and unconvincing.
     
  12. nero120

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    Oh dear - looks like this thread just died!
     
  13. Indy11

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    Astrology isn't scientific. And it certainly isn't based upon scientific discovery. Otherwise the discovery of new planets (Pluto, Neptune, Uranus, Planet X) should have upset the astrological apple cart a long time ago.

    I wonder whether it isn't so much about the stars at all but more a matter of undetected and complex environmental factors, in addition to genetics and nutrition, that have a seasonality to it that influence how we generally may develop.

    I've wondered whether the charting that is done actually is an unintended and indirect correlation to earthly environmental factors that may have small but generally consistent influence upon the conception or birth of a child.
     
  14. cleanbluesky

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    Right...

    1) Myself or Nero120 cannot 'prove' astrology to you I believe. I'm not sure the original rationale for astrology is even publicly available, because other than the vague idea that it originated in Aincient Egypt I'm not even sure anyone can be certain where it originated (becasue of Aincient Egyptian 'anachronistic' and accurate understanding of how the stars worked, and the fact that they are the oldest known civilisation)

    2) There is no social requirement for it to be proven to you, merely because you dont believe in it

    3) The fact that several 'scientists' have expressed the opinion that it is in fact false, on behalf of science, does not mean there is any evidence or that you should trust their opinion. The argument that it must be proven to you seems innapropriate given that no-one here seems to have even looked at any research that attempts to disprove astrology. I have replicated experiments designed to discredit it, and still have an open mind about whether it works...

    4) There is no such thing as 'proposterous' or 'rubbish' opinion. Someone has sighted some sort of Banana/Pluto analogy, but neither of us can actually guaruntee that there is not a Banana on Pluto right now, without resorting to the opinion of others who claim various things to be fact.

    Just because lots of people say something is untrue, doesn't neccessarily make it so...
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2006
  15. benjo plz.

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    That is very true CBS. I think the problem is we are dismissing things we do not know about. To put it simple, the human race is has only scratched the surface of how this world and the universe works, let alone the human mind etc. The simple truth is, people are rubbishing this because they know nothing about it.
     
  16. anarchist

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    But do the predictions actually come true? My mate went to see Derek Acorah and he was very impressed that Derek told some guy the lottery numbers and he said he would defintely win either Saturday or Wednesday. Very impressive. Did he actually win? He doesn't know - he never checked...

    Also, basing your faith on such things on some guy from a TV show seems a little optimistic. TV isn't real you know ;)
     
  17. cleanbluesky

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    Derek Accorah is a punk. You don't need to be psychic to know he's a liar.
     
  18. anarchist

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    And speaking of fiction, with regard to the Da Vinci Code movie, Opus Dei spokesman Marc Carroggio said "Any adult can distinguish reality from fiction. But you cannot expect a child to make proper judgements."

    Oh the irony ;)

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4638490.stm

    Oh, and similarly with a cardinal condemning the book:

    "The book is everywhere. There is a very real risk that many people who read it will believe that the fables it contains are true." :)
     
  19. Rich_L

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    This is most likely I believe.

    The factors which astrology are essentially based on are IMO pretty much meaningless, as people have already pointed out there are so many gaps and variables which to me make the idea of a person's personality being influenced by the position of a set of man-made constellations frankly ridiculous.

    It seems to me that any element of truth to astrology is far more likely to be as a result of much simpler elements like seasonality or something like the amount of daylight the mother had whilst the child was in the womb or suchlike. I'm not convinced that the predictions made by astrologists mean anything in the first place, but if there is an element of truth or prediction then IMO it is nothing more than a fortunate coincidence with some other, as yet undetermined, factor.
     
  20. Mr Jack

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    When you hug someone they have a greater gravitational effect on you than the moon does.