Atos wants out

memyselfandi · 21 Feb 2014 at 17:12

Most of the sales people I've dealt with you wouldn't want to let loose with anything more complex than Powerpoint ... they are certainly not qualified to actually do any real work.

Also most of the Government IT work which companies like Atos do can't be offshored anyway due ot the security requirements of the contract

benneh · 21 Feb 2014 at 17:17

Do we get to see them each strung up from lampposts?..

Robert · 21 Feb 2014 at 18:02

G|mp said:
Haven't they?

For information purposes, I have recently left Capita.

Capita are shocking, literally shocking with the amount of money they are charging the Government for a half arsed service.

Where did you work or who did you work for?

G|mp · 21 Feb 2014 at 19:15

Robert said:
Where did you work or who did you work for?

Central function based in Holborn.

Tunney · 22 Feb 2014 at 00:42

Gilly said:
A very large company, or a very large IT company?

The doers are almost always more skilled in their specific tasks than anyone else - including bid teams, management and P&PM.

A very large American consultancy, services and outsourcing company that have been involved with pretty much every large-scale government IT system in the last ten years.

The main problem, as I see it, is that the government outsources all of this expertise to the point where it no longer has the knowledge or experience to know who it would be best to outsource the work to.

Meridian · 22 Feb 2014 at 10:49

G|mp said:
People also need to distinguish between Atos the IT company and their sister company Atos Healthcare who all the problems were attributed to. When in reality, it's still the Government that are ****ing things up for disabled people.

Atos Healthcare are rubbish, but you are correct that they are implementing government policy pretty much as the Tories wanted it. Then they get to be the scapegoats for the policy.

GAC · 22 Feb 2014 at 11:18

Meridian said:
Atos Healthcare are rubbish, but you are correct that they are implementing government policy pretty much as the Tories wanted it. Then they get to be the scapegoats for the policy.

was waiting for this to be said, labour where the ones who brought atos in, in the first place, always seems to get forgotten that part. and im sure labour will be campaigning on getting rid of atos come the next election.

i just hope someone reminds them who awarded them the contract in the first place.

now im not saying the current gov havent had a hand in this and have ignored everything thats been going on, so in short thats all 3 main parties who backed atos. what a great political setup we have. :rolleyes:

Dolph · 22 Feb 2014 at 11:40

Meridian said:
Atos Healthcare are rubbish, but you are correct that they are implementing government policy pretty much as the Tories wanted it. Then they get to be the scapegoats for the policy.

This would be the Tory policy that started under labour, is based on legislation written by labour, and provided by a company who signed a contract under... Yep, you guessed it, labour.

This sort of thing will continue until we move away from a conditional benefits system.

scorza · 22 Feb 2014 at 12:18

Atos are just doing what the Daily Mail wanted, it started under Labour and the crackdown intensified during George Osborne's war on the poor. Of course, people who actually were knowledgeable about disability benefits and the people receiving them told them it was a bad idea, but they wouldn't listen.

Dolph · 22 Feb 2014 at 12:31

scorza said:
Atos are just doing what the Daily Mail wanted, it started under Labour and the crackdown intensified during George Osborne's war on the poor. Of course, people who actually were knowledgeable about disability benefits and the people receiving them told them it was a bad idea, but they wouldn't listen.

Generally people currently receiving money will always say it is a bad idea this stops, and should probably have their opinions taken with a pinch of salt as a Result.

This doesn't mean atoms did a good job or that the current assessment is right, but the idea of an independent assessment is still a good and needed one if the current flawed conditional benefits system is to remain in place without the needed total reform.

big_white_dog84 · 22 Feb 2014 at 12:37

How can G4S be seriously considered for any contract after the olympic disaster? Is this some EU procurement legislation forcing us down a 'fair' path?

spankingtexan · 22 Feb 2014 at 12:44

Government joins attack on Atos, said that standards at Atos had declined unacceptably

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26287199

DWP V's Atos but they vere only vollowing vorders LMAO

Dolph · 22 Feb 2014 at 12:50

Spanking, what is your view on the death threats and threats of violence towards atos staff?

spankingtexan · 22 Feb 2014 at 13:05

It's no secret I've been helping the campaign against Atos and the DWP, I have never threatened Atos staff with violence. The alleged death threats Atos claim to have received would be understandable from a relative of a dead Atos victim but I wouldn't condone such action. I believe in peaceful protests but some people are so outraged they sometimes make empty threats as I haven't heard of any deaths of Atos staff at the hands of protesters.

scorza · 22 Feb 2014 at 15:49

Dolph said:
Generally people currently receiving money will always say it is a bad idea this stops, and should probably have their opinions taken with a pinch of salt as a Result.

This doesn't mean atoms did a good job or that the current assessment is right, but the idea of an independent assessment is still a good and needed one if the current flawed conditional benefits system is to remain in place without the needed total reform.

Problem is that if you're taking money from the government for finding disabled people fit for work then you aren't independent. Presumably these people don't just decide for themselves that they aren't fit for work, their GP decides that. Isn't that independent enough?

Anyway, I'm expecting Atos' early exit from this contract will show up the ludicrous nature of government outsourcing. The reason Atos gave for wanting out was the death threats against their staff. Fair enough, a good employer should be concerned if their staff are at risk. However once Atos are out of their contract the staff will be TUPE'd into another company like Capita, G4S, Serco etc. So it will be the same staff, doing the same job, in the same locations, receiving the same death threats - the only difference will be the logo on their name badge. Nothing will fundamentally change.

Dolph · 22 Feb 2014 at 16:29

scorza said:
Problem is that if you're taking money from the government for finding disabled people fit for work then you aren't independent. Presumably these people don't just decide for themselves that they aren't fit for work, their GP decides that. Isn't that independent enough?

GPs most defininitely are not independent. They have an interest in keeping the patient happy as their income depends on this.

Anyway, I'm expecting Atos' early exit from this contract will show up the ludicrous nature of government outsourcing. The reason Atos gave for wanting out was the death threats against their staff. Fair enough, a good employer should be concerned if their staff are at risk. However once Atos are out of their contract the staff will be TUPE'd into another company like Capita, G4S, Serco etc. So it will be the same staff, doing the same job, in the same locations, receiving the same death threats - the only difference will be the logo on their name badge. Nothing will fundamentally change.

Government outsourcing is bad, but so is government work done in house. Maybe the common factor is the problem?

Adam Holland · 22 Feb 2014 at 16:36

I'm sure someone worse will step up to take over... with that said I was shocked to find out just how many incidents of abuse/violence the staff had received per month, crazy.

spankingtexan · 22 Feb 2014 at 16:51

Adam Holland said:
I'm sure someone worse will step up to take over... with that said I was shocked to find out just how many incidents of abuse/violence the staff had received per month, crazy.

I hope you are shocked to hear about those who have died at the hands of Atos incompetence. They should go now without ever assessing another person.

Quick google...

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/atos-victims-call-immediate-halt-3171692

Duke · 22 Feb 2014 at 16:53

G|mp said:
Haven't they?

For information purposes, I have recently left Capita.

Capita are shocking, literally shocking with the amount of money they are charging the Government for a half arsed service.

The Gov should be making sure it gets value from its contracts as well. I can see it is going that way as the company I work for is taking work off the likes of Capita, ATOS, Northgate, etc as well as working with them on projects. They are gradually going to medium sized companies.

Adam Holland · 22 Feb 2014 at 17:01

spankingtexan said:
*snip*

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/atos-victims-call-immediate-halt-3171692

That's some pretty awful stuff, my comment was in no way intended as a defence of Atos, the the situation has actually directly effected my family in a negative way so I'm not exactly a fan.

It's just that I'm very aware the staff in large are just doing a job as per-direction of the company at large and the government that has mandated them and found it shocking that seemingly physical violence was seen as some kind of acceptable response by some folks.