AV amp choices between Onkyo and Pioneer

Soldato
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16 Feb 2007
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After much iffing and eerring I have managed to decide on the pieces for my new home-cinema setup. I have had to have and go out with beer for a few months to be able to enjoy this choice!! These are my two choices for an AV amp to connect everything up and make do as a stereo for a few months until the cash flow is better.

1. Onkyo TX-SR805E AV-Receiver

2. Pioneer VSX-AX4AVi-S THX AV Receiver

The speakers are these: Mordaunt-Short Avant Premier Plus 5.1 Speaker Package.

Now there are more expensive options out there but for £850 i can’t find any better. Can anyone offer any advice on how i can decide between the 2 of them as i cant? and it might come down to something as simple as colour, which i think is a little funny. Or is it worth downgrading the speakers to allow for a better AV amp. I'am completely new to this area.

NB the room they will be placed is approx 12x18ft and the system will be placed on the 12' wall.
 
what he said :D by far the best for the money is the onkyo 805. at the very least, its 7 kilos heavier and can pull twice the current from the mains.its a wonderful performer in both movies and music:)
 
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I have had both - and the Pioneer is a great amp, but their support is terrible and I know they had a bass reproduction issue with HD material

I prefer the Onkyo myself just from all around (even though the Pio probably looks nicer)
 
2. Pioneer VSX-AX4AVi-S THX AV Receiver.
If your looking at getting a highend pioneer AV amp i would go for one of pioneer new ones with 1.3 hdmi support...listed below

Pioneer VSX-LX70 THX Home Cinema Receiver
Pioneer VSX-LX60 THX Home Cinema Receiver
Pioneer VSX-LX50 THX Home Cinema Receiver

HDMI v1.3 (High-Definition Multimedia Interface) switching with CEC (8th Generation Plasma matching)
Pioneer VSX-LX70
vsxlx70lrg.jpg


Pioneer VSX-LX50
vsxlx50lrg.jpg
 
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I have been looking at these Amps, my initial findings are that i will not be getting the Onkyo, Two reasons.

1) It runs far too hot, the test was in a demo room on a good AV rack and without being able to measure the temp it was at least 3 times hotter than the Pioneer. My amp is for my already too hot in the summer living room so while i was not expecting heat to be an issue it is.

2) The Onkyo was lousy with music, i would say a £300 Denon is better with music, the guy in the shop commented straight away that music performance is poor on all the recent Onkyo amps - features for AV over music is the direction they have gone for.

Now neither reason make the Amp bad per say, in multichanel mode it was fantastic and if heat and music were not a consideration i would be all over it. Incidentally the extra weight and power drawing are both related to the inefficency in the poweramps of the Onkyo - leading to the obscene heat it produces, i am hoping to go back and see it hooked to a poweramp to see how it performs as a video switcher/processor. Onkyo have a Processor out very soon so this could be a consideration for me.

The Pioneer is a tricky one, much better on music and vastly cooler - did it sound better ? Hard to say. I want to go back and hear it again when it has not been setup with the Pioneer auto thing as i have read this has a dramatic effect on the sound.

I am hanging on for a bit now, Denon and Yamaha have new 'HD' Amps very soon and i was disappointed to rule out the Onkyo so easily but at the moment i have :( (I have Quad speakers + Rel sub so all opinions based on this setup)
 
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hmmm. your the only two people i know of to really be disappointed in the music performance of the amps. there are quite a few people who have moved form a pioneer to an onkyo and said the opposite. Personally im thoroughly impressed with mine. heat isnt an issue, it really isnt. yes they do run hot but they are designed to. give it some breathing room (it doesnt need the 8 inches all round or whatever silly recommendations the manual says, just room on top and at the back) and it'll happily play at reference level all day long.

i could be wrong here, but it is possible the guy in the shop wasnt setting them up correctly? this is what hometheatrehifi.com says about the 805:

Listening

Bottom line: the Onkyo TX-SR805 receiver sounds as good, I would even say better, than just anything else out there within its price band and can even give some much more expensive pieces a run for their money.

Gone are the days of "tube rolling" and other such romantic notions when it comes to how a piece of audio hardware sounds. It all comes down to two things: IC selection and implementation. We cannot judge a DAC chip or op-amp by itself, since slight variations in the underlying topology can make, literally, all the difference.

Onkyo is really pushing even their own envelope here. We used to talk about DACs and amps having the "British sound" or the "Japanese sound", but with the increased education in the hi-fi marketplace, what we are really after today is one thing: neutral sound. That is, sound that is so true to the signal that you cannot classify it. Call it "The True Sound".

And that's what you get in the 805. Whether we used it on its own at judicious playback within its abilities, or slaved it to a known power amplifier to judge its line level performance, what we got was the real enchilada, period. Sorry about not waxing poetic, but I think those days are behind us. Phrases like "papery dryness" and "fuller bass" may still be all we have to describe the much more subtle voicing which is (perhaps unfortunately) still present in speakers, but here we are only talking about reconstituting the waveform (at the DAC level) and then passing and/or amplifying that thereafter.

Simply stated, "Onkyo gets it right". You'll have to multiply your investment by a factor of three to five in order to shave off that last hint that you are listening to digital and not some hypothetical high definition analog master.

That makes the 805 and downright bargain, even if you never used its amplifiers. Speaking of which . . . .

On the Bench

This is where it all comes to a head: THX Ultra2 power inside a $1,099 receiver. How did they do it? The obvious answer is, "They put the lion's share of the cost into that really, REALLY big power supply". True enough, but let's dig deeper.

In all common amplifier topologies, low-impedance loads have the inherent consequence of increased heat as the greater current (as opposed to voltage) is delivered. Make no mistake: no matter how "good" a receiver is (no matter how much it costs), it cannot compete with separate power amplifiers for this reason. There is simply too much crammed into one box. Elaborate means of dissipating heat are possible, but they are expensive to the point of making the pursuit futile (i.e., you might as well just go the way of separates).

The 805, as we previously noted, has a pair of intelligently implemented on-demand fans to help change the air, but that does not preclude it from having what is common in any decent (and safe to use) receiver: a setting for low impedance speaker loads.

Specifically, in this case, you must set the receiver for either >6ohm loads or >4ohm loads.

This is of particular importance at this juncture, because of exactly what that setting does. In a nutshell, it biases the power supply for a little less voltage and limits output as such. A responsible report of the receiver's power amplifier performance would not be complete without looking at both settings. I've seen advice being given elsewhere that the 6 ohm (or more commonly 8 ohm) setting on receivers in general should be used regardless of the attached speaker's impedance because that setting does give more output. The setting is in fact there for safety reasons: driving a 4 ohm speaker in the 6ohm setting will cause the unit to get hotter than the governing bodies deem acceptable, though there are some who feel the governing bodies are using outdated steady state tests. Caveat emptor, proceed at your own risk, and all that jazz. I'm just here to report the facts.

Frequency response and THD+N measurements were taken with a 2.0V RMS output from the Onkyo to our measurement sound card.

Within the audio band, the Onkyo exhibits a measured frequency response of 20 Hz - 20 kHz, + 0, - 0.75 dB. Not dazzling, but adequate.

Inter-modulation distortion at the line level was 0.0063%, which is excellent.

Next we confirmed Onkyo's published spec of 130W per channel, two channels driven. We loaded two channels with 8 ohms (with the hardware set to the default >6ohm) and brought two channels up to 130W output where we measured THD+N at only 0.0348%. Again, excellent.

Next we moved on to the "cooking" tests. All tests were conducted "two channels driven" with the same 2.0V RMS input.

First we left the 805 in its 6 ohm setting, brought the output up to 1% THD (popularly accepted as the point of clipping), and measured the output. We then loaded it with 4 ohms on each channel and measured. Switching the 805 to its 4 ohm setting we again measured with 8 and 4 ohm loads. The results are tabulated as follows.


>6 ohm setting (default)


>4 ohm setting






8 ohm load

173 Watts


87 Watts

4 ohm load

270 Watts*


151 Watts

* Time limited test under controlled laboratory conditions.

One can see at a glance the performance of the amplifiers in their default setting is remarkably good for a $1,099 comprehensively featured receiver. The behavior is commensurate with good amplifier design in that, transiently at least, it will dump a lot of current as evidenced by the 270W into 4 ohms. Not quite "doubling down" as the saying goes, but none actually do so (cleaver spec'ing just makes it seem like some can).

Switching to the 4 ohm setting, we see exactly what we expect: reduced output as compared to the default setting, regardless of actual load. While at first glance a dramatic shift from the default, these numbers must bear interpretation. Having only 87 watts output seems not so good, but the >4ohm setting should only be used with low impedance speakers where for the lion's share of the spectrum the Onkyo will be in that 151 watt territory, which is only about 5% less than the 173 watts into 8 ohm load of the >6 ohm setting.

It would have been useful to test five or seven channels simultaneously since looking at two channels on a multi-channel amplifier can really only show us the voltage limitation (but unfortunately we didn’t have enough resistors at hand to do so). Onkyo advises us though that their topology is such that current is pretty much the same between the two settings. Even so, under certain circumstances with the 4 ohm setting, it may technically, though counter intuitively, work better in that while it may clip earlier, it will recover quicker (since it takes longer to restore a drained reserve than to simply recover from a limited voltage induced clip).

Empirically speaking, no matter how you chose to interpret it, there is plenty of power. For virtually the entire in-use review period, I used M&K MPS2510 front satellite speakers (high passed at 80 Hz as per THX) which have a decidedly difficult 3.5 ohm nominal load. The 805 was set to the appropriate 4 ohm setting, and in my actual use at least did not exhibit any audible distress, even though I thought it might on certain material and playback level combinations I was messing with.

Let's keep in mind that for years most people put a great deal of credence in THX for amplifier certification, if nothing else, and their incredibly complex, but correspondingly useful, battery of channel/load/level permutation tests were of course met satisfactorily by the 805 in its finished form. I've often joked with John Dahl at THX that if I ever damage a THX speaker hooked up to a THX product, set up per THX's recommendations in an appropriately sized room, that he'd have to make good for it. Well, this review is pretty much over, and I've yet to make a claim.

Ultimately, Onkyo brings Ultra2 performance down to the unprecedented price point by delivering the performance needed without going overboard. It can drive a THX Ultra speaker in a THX sized room with real-world program material, but it can't drive a 2 ohm test load indefinitely (as a certain $5,000 power amplifier I know can). OK, so don't use the 805 with electrostatic speakers.

Another significant observation, particularly in these times of energy and environmental conservation, is the 805's power consumption. Like other receivers I have checked on, it uses less electricity at idle when it is set to 4 ohm: about 95 watts drawn from the wall as compared to 135 watts when in the 6 ohm setting. More distressing though is that if HDMI-Control is enabled, the 805 will draw 68 watts when completely turned off! Compare that to an almost immeasurable >2 watts when that feature is disabled. What HDMI-Control does is let the Onkyo control another piece of equipment via HDMI. For example, turning on the Onkyo could also turn on a TV or Blu-Ray player connected via HDMI. At my present cost of power, that "convenience" will run me $60 a year. In my opinion, this is a significant waste of power, especially when the same can be achieved through macros on a remote, or other more power miserly means.

Conclusions

Although this review has gotten decidedly lengthy, it is necessarily so. The purpose here is to equip our readers with the knowledge necessary to make proper assessment of the products you are considering spending your money on. The 805 requires the depth of this report for you to appreciate what an incredible value it represents.

Over the past decade of writing, I've seen my share of products, many of which I write about, others I do not. From that experience I've seen some company's offerings wax, wane, and wax again such that no blanket recommendation can be made. Every piece must be examined by itself. A few names however have distinguished themselves, in my estimation at least, to the point where while I still would like to see something first hand, their products, even the yet unseen become "safe bets" (if you happen to enjoy that whole Vegas scene). Onkyo is one of these special companies.

Consistent has been their presentation to me, and while I always find design elements to, shall we say, comment on, there is a genuine sense of pushing the products forward: each iteration builds on the last. They just keep getting better.

Hats off to those Onkyo engineers half a world away. You've got another winner, so says this critic.

My thanks to Sandy Bird for his assistance in measuring this piece.

click me for a rather in depth review of the tx-sr805

that also confirms a question ive been asking for a while now - it does indeed have the same two side fans as the 905, drawing air in from the front onto the central heatsink on demand.

regarding efficiency Sound and Vision had this to say about the 875:

Sound and Vision said:
Sound and Vision:


I've come to expect stellar bench results from high-echelon Onkyos (and lower-echelon ones, too, usually), and I got them. Noise and distortion measurements were uniformly state of the art. Frequency response was excellent as well, though the TX-SR875 exhibited a very small rolloff, of about 0.5 dB per octave, above about 10 kHz in all playback modes. (In other words, flat to 10 kHz and about 0.5 dB down at 20 kHz.) Not really significant, and if truth be told, probably more boon than bane with most real-world program material.

Power results were generous almost to a fault, handily exceeding the receiver's 140 watts-per-channel rating in all tests except for seven-channel-simultaneous power, which came very, very close. The TX-SR875 got quite hot under prolonged power testing, however. And the fan (which came on only under severe stress) was a bit noisy, though users should never hear it while playing at the volume required to activate it. With the receiver's impedance menu set to "4 ohms," power in all modes was limited to around 55 watts, as is usual with such current-limiting modes. All our listed tests, including 4-ohm power measurements, reflect performance with the "6 ohms" setting. Bridged output at clipping was in excess of 300 watts, two channels driven into 8 ohms.

DOLBY DIGITAL PERFORMANCE

All data were obtained using various test DVDs with 16-bit dithered signals, which set limits on measured distortion and noise performance. Reference input level is -20 dBFS, and reference output is 1 watt into 8 ohms. Volume setting for reference level was -7.5. All level trims were at zero, except for subwoofer-related tests, and all speakers were set to "large," subwoofer on. All are worst-case figures where applicable.

Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)
1 channel driven: 201/322 watts (23/25.1 dBW)
5 channels driven (8 ohms): 141 watts (21.5 dBW)
7 channels driven (8 ohms): 128 watts (21.1 dBW)
Distortion at 1 watt (THD+N, 1 kHz)
8/4 ohms: 0.02/0.03%
Noise level (A-weighted): -76.1 dB
Excess noise (with sine tone)
16-bit (EN16): 0.7 dB
Frequency response: 20 Hz to 20 kHz +0, -0.8 dB

MULTICHANNEL PERFORMANCE, ANALOG INPUT

Reference input and output level is 200 mV; volume setting for reference output level was -14.0.

Distortion (THD+N, 1 kHz, 8 ohms): 0.01%
Noise level (A-weighted.): -82.9 dB
Frequency response: <10 Hz to 183 kHz +0, -3 dB

STEREO PERFORMANCE, DIGITAL INPUT

Reference level is -20 dBFS; all level trims at zero. Volume setting for reference level was 6.5.

Output at clipping (1 kHz, both channels driven)
8/4 ohms: 185/320 watts (22.7/25.1 dBW)
Distortion at reference level: 0.02%
Linearity error (at -90 dBFS): 0.2 dB
Noise level (A-weighted): -75.6 dB
with 96-kHz/24-bit signals: -88.8 dB
Excess noise (with/without sine tone)
16-bit (EN16): 0.3/0.3 dB
quasi-20-bit (EN20): 9.6/9.9 dB
Noise modulation: 0.2 dB
Frequency response: <10 Hz to 20 kHz +0, -0.8 dB
with 96-kHz/24-bit signals: <10 Hz to 44.5 kHz +0, -1.7 dB

For amplifiers so inefficiant as you put it, 128w RMS 7 channels @ 8ohms driven for a 140w rated amplifier is stunning. thats 896w RMS combined, real measured output.
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/receivers/2463/test-bench-onkyo-tx-sr875-av-receiver.html
 
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Ive been a Yamaha AV man with every AV amp ive owned (well but 1) having had 5 in total ive never been dissapointed with what i spent from mid priced models to owning 3x of the top end models in my time. Sure theirs a big differnce in mid priced to high end models but ive never been dissapointed as to how each performed and how they were easily controlled. Something Pioneer in the past have done horridly with awkward remotes and multifeatures.

Personally id hold Yamaha and Denon as the two best overall brands if considering quality,asthetics and features.
Id like to see how this new yamaha compares to the ONKYO lads...

Yams new mid priced model. Should come in around £800 - £900 due October.
(google as its already on pre-order)

We have a NEW CONTENDER!

YAMAHA RX-V1800 Home Cinema Receiver


EV_rxv1800bl.jpg



PV_rxv1800bl_rear.jpg



PV_rxv1800bl_remotes.jpg





The Blurb...


Details:
The new Yamaha RXV-1800 is part of a new wave of 'HD' receivers from Yamaha. This 7.1 channel AV receiver with an extensive range of home theatre functions including High Definition audio decoding, 1080p compatible HDMI 1.3a connectivity, 1080p video upscaling, improved YPAO sound optimisation and iPod compatibility via the optional YDS-10 docking station.
Yamaha's newest range of high end receivers let users enjoy the best possible and newest surround sound from Blu-ray Disc players and HD-DVD players. It supports the two lossy formats: Dolby Digital Plus and DTS HD High Resolution, as well as the lossless formats: Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio. Standard Dolby Digital, DTS, and ProLogicIIx formats are also catered for.
Pure Direct is a special amplifier mode that causes the signal to bypass all but the most basic audio circuitry, and even turns off the display to prevent any chance of noise interference. It provides the purest possible high fidelity sound from all sources including HDMI inputs. Bi-amping is another feature to improve 2 channel reproduction that lets you enjoy superior sound quality. It assigns the surround back channels to provide separate low frequency and mid/high frequency allocation to the front channels, thus improving sound clarity in all frequency ranges.
With the Yamaha RX-V1800 AV receiver, you have a choice of 22 unique Yamaha DSP surround programmes to bring out the full audio potential of all your entertainment sources. Yamaha's Night Listening enhancer offers two modes, Cinema and Music, with three-level selectability, which will ensure that you don't miss movie dialogue or quiet passages, or lose overall surround spaciousness even during low volume listening late at night.
The RX V1800 has an improved YPAO Sound Optimization system analyses the acoustics of the room and adjusts various speaker parameters to provide optimum sound quality at the listening position - in less than three minutes! A new Quick Start function displays the YPAO Auto Setup menu when the microphone jack is inserted, so Start can be immediately selected. Six YPAO settings can be memorized and accessed from the remote control
A total of four 1.3a Deep Colour (30/36 bit) compatible HDMI and 3 component video inputs offer HD picture quality, switching for use with units such as DVD players that have HDMI (up to 1080p) or Component Video (up to 1080i) outputs, making this amplifier compatible with HDTV (720p / 1080i / 1080p). The Yamaha RX-V1800 is equipped with high-definition video upconversion circuitry allowing analogue to digital video upconversion. A Time Base Corrector (TBC) transforms degraded analogue video signals into a stable format for distortion-free viewing.
Along with full I-Pod compatibility via Yamaha's optional YDS-10 docking station and a Compressed Music Enhancer function, the Yamaha RXV 1800 is a perfect base for any multimedia system.
Dolby Digital True HD, Dolby Digital Plus and DTS HD Master Audio HD audio decoding
Dolby Digital EX, DTS-ES and Dolby ProLogic IIx audio decoding
Fine Tuned Cinema DSP and Adaptive DSP Level
Improved Compressed Music Enhancer for improving MP3 audio quality
Audio Delay for adjusting lip-sync errors
Burr Brown 192kHz/24 bit DAC's
4 1.3a HDMI and 3 Component inputs
Full analogue and digital video upconversion to 1080p
6 channel input (5.1)
Digital TopArt and High Current Amplification
Assignable Amplification for bi-amping
Pure Direct for high quality sound reproduction
Quick Start YPAO Room Equalisation



USA website & specs (euro sites not updated yet/what a surprise)
Check it out...

Best to confirm specs match UK/Euro Regions as sometimes amplification etc differs between USA and Euro models.
May also only be available in titainium colur for UK?

Looks like a kickass amp shares similarities to my aging RVX-4600 having the same chasis and design/remote so i can recommend those for easy use and much, much nicer styling than the ONKYO

More inputs with an extra HDMI and OPTICAL connections than the Onkyo and we know for sure its "Deep Colour (30/36bit) transmission" with "1080p/24Hz, 1080p/60Hz and 1080p/120Hz" compatible. Similar power and certainly nicer looking but will that Ultra2 THX badge on the Onkyo really make a difference? I reckon this will give the 805 very stiff competition but i know which one id buy out of the two and the Yamaha looks better spec wise than the upcoming similar priced Denon AVR 2808 also.

Oh have fun comparing.....
 
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Thanks for the advice guys, will be going for the onkyo one. Stupid TV is going to take over a week to be delivered so it will be some time before i can give everyone an update.

As a stupid question, do these bits of equipment come with wires to connect the speaker or is that more expense for me?
 
Mr Latte,

I have tested a V1700 and liked, hence my waiting - the 1800 certinally wins hands down looks wise and 4 HDMI is perfect. Never liked Yamaha musically even when 'UK Tuned' but i will certinally be holding out for this one. I had heard it was due September but i can hold on !
 
You know with Yamaha's reputation this will be a well reviewed product and i cant see any reason why on performance it would lack behind the ONKYO.
The 805 has been the surprise buy of the year but got most of its attention because it was one of the first true HD capable AV Amps on the market and with this hype and nothing else to compare it too its hardly unsurprising it reviewed well.

This isnt knocking the 805 but like i said in james's recent purchase thread for the 805 about 6 weeks back i knew other models would be upcoming and waiting a couple of months might not of been a bad thing, choice never is right? Even though at that stage the Yamaha 1800 was an unkown priduct yet i knew something was on the cards as like always their new product cycles are typically in OCT and MAY. Regards the Yamaha 1800 expect to see 10-15% off the RRP appearing within a short period so it will be similar priced to the onkyo 805.

Although like anything in hifi and as you mentioned they will sound different and Yamaha sometimes can sound soft but id rather have that than a harsh sound and ive installed many Pioneer and Sony systems for friends over the years in the past yet always been more impressed with Yamaha's easier operation and remotes.

I look forward to upcoming 805 Vs the Yamaha 1800 threads which will be appearing in the usual places. One things for certain the 1800 model seems a bargin compared to Yamaha's 3800 model as really apart from fancy onscreen GUI, USB playback and networking your paying for a bit more oomph @140w PC.

Comparison here:

Hope its of some help...

For those interested in performance then i recommend you check out how the RX-V1700 faired in reviews.
Basically the RX-V1800 has the new
HD audio formats
9 band graphic eq
1080 upscaling abilities

Including what seems the same amplification and revised DSP with with some additional tweaks.
Thats why i have faith in it being a winner...

BTW here's last years 1700 and the upcoming 1800 comparision
Both were same RRP so shows what difference in spec a year makes.....
 
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its 7 kilos heavier and can pull twice the current from the mains.its a wonderful performer in both movies and music:)

Yes id not doubt for a moment it is a wonderfull performer
However with upto a reported 870w power consumption it is a hungry beast and no doubt this and its weight 23.3kg are mostly down to the power supply/transformer within the unit.

As a comparison the Yamaha is indeed lighter @ 17.4 kg but it uses a rather modest 450w.
Somethings really weird with the Onkyo needing so much power particulary with both models supporting similar specs and amplification. However this is true across all of Onkyo's range when compared to Yamaha Denon or Pioneer an Onkyo similar product just drinks up more juice.

Infact you could run the Yamaha a PS3 and a X360 and STILL use less wattage than the Onkyo can use.
Unbeliveable but true according to this
 
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Yes id not doubt for a moment it is a wonderfull performer
However with upto a reported 870w power consumption it is a hungry beast and no doubt this and its weight 23.3kg are mostly down to the power supply/transformer within the unit.

As a comparison the Yamaha is indeed lighter @ 17.4 kg but it uses a rather modest 450w.
Somethings really weird with the Onkyo needing so much power particulary with both models supporting similar specs and amplification. However this is true across all of Onkyo's range when compared to Yamaha Denon or Pioneer an Onkyo similar product just drinks up more juice.

Infact you could run the Yamaha a PS3 and a X360 and STILL use less wattage than the Onkyo can use.
Unbeliveable but true according to this

thats apples and oranges though. yamaha are known for over quoting their power figures when all channels are driven, as they did massively with my old rx-v630. that was an 80w RMS quoted amp, but that dropped to something around 40w all channels driven. yes it was that bad! but when you look at the back, or in the user manual it all becomes clear: a consumption of 290w. obviously, 6x80w doesnt go in to 290 and that's were the problem was. power consumption was at that lower level because thats all the transformer in the amp could muster.

here's a more recent test of a yamaha, their rx-v661. quoted at 90w per channel. to maintain that, the amp would have to output a solid 630w at the very least but according to yamaha's own pictures of the unit, it only has a 390w draw..... on the bench

DOLBY DIGITAL PERFORMANCE

All data were obtained from various test DVDs using 16-bit dithered test signals, which set limits on measured distortion and noise performance. Reference input level is -20 dBFS, and reference output is 1 watt into 8 ohms. Volume setting for reference level was -3. All level trims at zero, except for subwoofer-related tests; all speakers were set to "large," subwoofer on. All figures are worst-case where applicable.

Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)
1 channel driven: 151/224 watts* (21.8/23.5 dBW)*
5 channels driven (8 ohms): 56 watts (17.5 dBW)
6 channels driven (8 ohms): 53 watts (17.2 dBW)
Distortion at 1 watt (THD+N, 1 kHz)
8/4 ohms: 0.03/0.04%
Noise level (A-weighted): -76.3 dB
Excess noise (with sine tone)
16-bit (EN16): 0.9 dB
Frequency response: 20 Hz to 20 kHz +0, -0.15 dB

*Speaker-impedance setup switch at "8-ohm" position. With switch set to "6-ohm," output was limited to about 63 watts (18 dBW).

MULTICHANNEL PERFORMANCE, ANALOG INPUT

Reference input and output level is 200 mV; volume setting for reference output level was -3.5 dB.

Distortion (THD+N, 1 kHz, 8 ohms): 0.01%
Noise level (A-weighted): -92.8 dB
Frequency response: <10 Hz to 133 kHz +0, -3 dB

STEREO PERFORMANCE, DIGITAL INPUT

Reference level is -20 dBFS; all level trims at zero. Volume setting for reference level was -3 dB.

Output at clipping (1 kHz, 8/4 ohms, both channels driven): 99/137 watts* (20/21.4 dBW)*
Distortion at reference level: 0.03%
Linearity error (at -90 dBFS): 1.3 dB
Noise level (A-weighted): -76 dB
with 96-kHz/24-bit signals: -84.3 dB
Excess noise (with/without sine tone)
16-bit (EN16): 0.8/0.25 dB
quasi-20-bit (EN20): 12.2/11.7 dB
Noise modulation: 1.3 dB
Frequency response: 20 Hz to 20 kHz +0, -0.1 dB
with 96-kHz/24-bit signals: 20 Hz to 43 kHz +0, -3 dB

*Speaker-impedance setup switch at "8-ohm" position. With switch set to "6-ohm," output was limited to about 61 watts (17.9 dBW).

driven 6 channels, the output drops to 53w. thats about a 40% reduction in output but critically, that fits inside the 390w draw that yamaha stated on the unit. they didnt drive 7 channels, but if they did (and assuming the output wouldnt drop further) that would top it out at 371w. guys remember that av amps typically quote power figures in to two channels only, yamaha are very good at this! with a rated draw of 450w, dont be surprised if you see that 6 channel output drop to 70w or so, less if all 7 channels are driven. the onkyo is such a hungry beast because it can supply the grunt it quotes into every channel simultaneously (well, as near as dammit - 128w x 6), but that doesnt mean it does this all the time - its only a peak draw figure. ive not see a yamaha this side of £2k that can do that yet:). and simply that is why the unit is so heavy. you need a big transformer to handle that sort of current draw., and the heatsinks and everything else that goes with it:) the 2700 isnt ultraII certified either. you have to wonder why?

/ even so 75w is ample for most people, i wouldn't claim otherwise. but the onkyo (both the 805 and 875) does what it says on the tin and that's an achievement for an av amplifier, especially an amp for £1k or under.
 
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I have respected Yamaha equipment for a long while - but never bought anything simply because its always sounded "wrong" to me in one way or another (and they had a thing against THX for quite a while)

Their physical designs are getting better in my eyes, a couple of generations ago they were butt ugly imo

I do think Onkyo missed a trick with not having 4 hdmi inputs on the 805 though (yes I know the higher models do, and I knew this at time I bought mine, but at a similar price point now Yamaha and Pioneer both offer 4)
 
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