AV Receiver service?

Soldato
Joined
7 Jan 2009
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Does anyone know if AV Receiver's should be serviced? like cap replacement etc?

I've noticed mine doesn't seem as loud as it use to be, not sure if its down to the speakers have aged over the many years...or I'm going DEAF (again age related lol.)
 
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Man of Honour
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Tech normally moves too fast to bother with the cost of recapping an old AV receiver.

Speaker though is a different situation. This is to do with how ferrofluid ages.

Ferrofluid became popular in the 1980s. Lots of brands jumped on the bandwagon and started to fill the magnet gaps of their drivers with ferrofluid as a way to help deal with voice coil heating. What perhaps wasn't considered though is ferrofluid dries out over time. Any older speakers that have either been in storage or simply left unused for a year or more could well start to display high frequency problems due to the fluid becoming a bit sludgy. What happens is it impedes the movement of the tweeter coil at higher frequencies. It's sometimes mistaken for blown tweeters, but if you know the crossover point of the speakers and have an AV receiver with graphical displays of each speaker response then you'll see that the HF gradually fades away rather than dying after the crossover point.

This is something I've only just encountered, but it does explain why some once great speakers seem to have lost their shine.

In my case I was doing some work with a system using KEF TDM THX Reference home cinema speakers. These came out in the late 90s. The front soundstage in this system sounded dull, and at first I thought all three tweeters had blown. I couldn't see how, but you never know, sometimes things happen like that. The back story is that these had been stored after a house move, and left in storage for quite some time until the cinema room was finally ready.

I had contact with KEF regarding replacement drivers, but the originals are long since out of production, that driver model having been superseded at least twice. However, through another contact I was able to find a firm who thought they might be able to re-coil the tweeters so we could keep originality. It was during that conversation that I mentioned most of the HF loss was above about 8K. That's when the engineer said about the ferrofluid.

The process of renewing it is very much like a tweeter rebuild, so the costs are about the same. However, it gives the original driver a new lease of life.

YMMV, and maybe your speakers either aren't that old or have remained in constant use. Or maybe your receiver does indeed need recapping. But before going to that expense on a receiver that is perhaps no longer that valuable, then take time to consider measuring the frequency response of the speakers.

Incidentally, phone apps might not be the right tool to help you. Not because of any problem with the apps themselves - or at least not that I'm aware, but because some phone mics lack the HF extension required to adequately track the frequency output of a tweeter. They may give a false impression of what's going on with the tweeter.
 
Soldato
Joined
27 Mar 2013
Posts
9,147
Tech normally moves too fast to bother with the cost of recapping an old AV receiver.

Speaker though is a different situation. This is to do with how ferrofluid ages.

Ferrofluid became popular in the 1980s. Lots of brands jumped on the bandwagon and started to fill the magnet gaps of their drivers with ferrofluid as a way to help deal with voice coil heating. What perhaps wasn't considered though is ferrofluid dries out over time. Any older speakers that have either been in storage or simply left unused for a year or more could well start to display high frequency problems due to the fluid becoming a bit sludgy. What happens is it impedes the movement of the tweeter coil at higher frequencies. It's sometimes mistaken for blown tweeters, but if you know the crossover point of the speakers and have an AV receiver with graphical displays of each speaker response then you'll see that the HF gradually fades away rather than dying after the crossover point.

This is something I've only just encountered, but it does explain why some once great speakers seem to have lost their shine.

In my case I was doing some work with a system using KEF TDM THX Reference home cinema speakers. These came out in the late 90s. The front soundstage in this system sounded dull, and at first I thought all three tweeters had blown. I couldn't see how, but you never know, sometimes things happen like that. The back story is that these had been stored after a house move, and left in storage for quite some time until the cinema room was finally ready.

I had contact with KEF regarding replacement drivers, but the originals are long since out of production, that driver model having been superseded at least twice. However, through another contact I was able to find a firm who thought they might be able to re-coil the tweeters so we could keep originality. It was during that conversation that I mentioned most of the HF loss was above about 8K. That's when the engineer said about the ferrofluid.

The process of renewing it is very much like a tweeter rebuild, so the costs are about the same. However, it gives the original driver a new lease of life.

YMMV, and maybe your speakers either aren't that old or have remained in constant use. Or maybe your receiver does indeed need recapping. But before going to that expense on a receiver that is perhaps no longer that valuable, then take time to consider measuring the frequency response of the speakers.

Incidentally, phone apps might not be the right tool to help you. Not because of any problem with the apps themselves - or at least not that I'm aware, but because some phone mics lack the HF extension required to adequately track the frequency output of a tweeter. They may give a false impression of what's going on with the tweeter.
Is that still a problem with newer speakers?
 
Man of Honour
Joined
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With newer speakers they won't have had time yet to age sufficiently so that the ferrofluid has dried out, so if you're looking at used speakers at say 10-yrs old, then you're not going to see much evidence of this.

Also, I think usage plays an important part. I have other customers with KEF speakers of a similar vintage, but they're in use if not daily then certainly weekly, but no sign of upper frequency loss, or certainly not to this degree.

I've always maintained that good speakers are good speakers regardless of age. It's still something I believe to be true. However, if you're auditioning s/h speakers from the 80s and 90s, and particularly if they've been left unused for a while, then it's something to check out.
 
Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
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12,396
Location
Birmingham
Really interesting about ferrofluid. I’ve had to replace midrange drivers in my mission speakers because it was leaking! I hadn’t thought about the tweeters needing a refresh.

Wouldn’t old tweeters that have been stored in a warehouse have the same problem as those in stored speakers? Mine have been used almost daily all their lives so hopefully won’t be a problem, but worth investigating.
 
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