AWD : Suitable for snowy, icy conditions?

crinkleshoes

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Hussman said:
I agree that using the car in such conditions was not the best option. However, I had to use the car to return home after a night out when the road had become snow-bound during the course of the evening. It was clear (just blinking cold!) when I left home for my night out.

Looks like I need to brush up on my skills (fair enough, we can all improve) and perhaps buy snow tyres.

So, does anyone here have first hand experience of such tyres? Are they worth it or is it a gimmick?
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Depends on how much money you're willing to spend, but yes - tyre choice makes a huge difference.

It can also compromise ride quality too, though. What car is it?

I would be inclined to purchase a second set of wheels (not new, just cheap 2nd hand things) with snow tyres... so for most of the year you can drive round with nice wheels on normal tyres but you still have that backup for when the weather goes bonkers.
 

acemastr

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An AWD is less likely to oversteer and point you backwards, but an AWD car is more likely to understeer and drive you over a roundabout.

My 330 has enough grip to confidently chuck it round in the wet without the rear breaking traction, surprising amount of grip actually.
 

Hussman

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It's a Lexus is200.

My partner has now seen this thread and tells me I don't need an AWD.

Thanks to Fox, and others, my argument for buying a secondhand Lexus LS600h has just gone up in smoke!!! :)

Jeez! :)
 

Draeger

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[TW]Fox;21662919 said:
:rolleyes:

He's asking for advice, how dare we give him opinion. We should all praise his thought process, ignore any flaws in it and recommend a Subaru Legacy.
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I know he was asking for advice. I was being sincere to a degree. He lives in Kent as you astutely pointed out. Chances of "needing" a 4WD there are remote. However for some inhabitants of the UK mainland, 4WD can be an added advantage, nay a necessity in some places.

So - you can put your high horse back in your box. :p :)
 

Liampope

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blun said:
Is there an argument for this point:

In the UK it rains a lot - the roads are often slippery etc.. Does an AWD vehicle offer an advantage over a RWD one in these circumstances? e.g Would an A4 quattro be more advantageous compared to a RWD 3 series on a wet / slippery road?
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Remember 4WD offers advantages only in traction - it does nothing for stopping or if you go round a corner too fast. To lose control of a RWD vehicle, particularly a modern one with TC etc, on merely wet roads you have to quite seriously abuse the throttle pedal, and whilst having 4WD would indeed have mitigated in such circumstances, it's really the driving that would best be addressed rather than the car.
 

[TW]Fox

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Draeger said:
I know he was asking for advice. I was being sincere to a degree. He lives in Kent as you astutely pointed out. Chances of "needing" a 4WD there are remote. However for some inhabitants of the UK mainland, 4WD can be an added advantage, nay a necessity in some places.
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And if his location field said 'Kingussie' then the thread would have turned out differently.
 

Disco Boy

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Hussman said:
Hi Fellas,

I own a RWD car. In the snow last year I had one or two very hairy moments when the back spun out due to loss of traction. This was despite the car having a "snow mode" and traction control. Fortunately, I was able to correct the problem before hitting other road-users or the ditch. But it wasn't a lot of fun at the time.
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Okay...
For this reason I am considering getting an AWD vehicle. I do not want a 4x4 as I never go off road and consider such vehicles pointless unless you are going to use them for such activities.
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Lol. Just lol. You want to compromise your car for the sake of twice a year? You even said yourself that having a four wheel drive car is pointless. Having four driven wheels doesn't make as big a difference in snow as everyone seems to think, you still have only four braked wheels, and not being able to stop is much more likely to cause an accident than not being able to set off! In fact having a four wheel drive car is arguably more likely to result in you having a crash in snow, because you'll be driving everywhere instead of parked on your drive!
 

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Disco Boy said:
Okay...


Lol. Just lol. You want to compromise your car for the sake of twice a year? You even said yourself that having a four wheel drive car is pointless. Having four driven wheels doesn't make as big a difference in snow as everyone seems to think, you still have only four braked wheels, and not being able to stop is much more likely to cause an accident than not being able to set off! In fact having a four wheel drive car is arguably more likely to result in you having a crash in snow, because you'll be driving everywhere instead of parked on your drive!
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I'm not sure the LOLs are necessary :(

Sorry that I am not a petrol-head expert.

I said having a 4x4 is pointless (for my needs). 4x4 is, in some respects, different to AWD.

I was asking for advice from people who may have more knowledge than I did in this area.

If I knew the answer I wouldn't have asked.
 

Dogbreath

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To answer you question, a 4WD vehicle will typically have a lockable diff between the front and rear axles, and a high/low range in the transfer box. AWD cars normally use a simple viscous coupling (e.g. Freelander), or some kind of hydraulically actuated limited slip diff to distribute torque between the front and rear (e.g. VW Haldex) but typically can't be locked and don't have high/low ratios.

4WD is for proper off roading, AWD works well on slippery roads to get the power down but not usually suitable for any kind of serious off-road use.

Note that whilst having all four wheels driven may help you start moving in slippery conditions, it won't help you stop any quicker, and whilst it might help the car slide more neutrally during cornering, it can still slide.

If you really struggled during the snow, a set of winter tyres would be a better investment than AWD, but for the amount it snows in England I'm not convinced even that is worth while.
 

Gaijin

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4WD merely offers better traction management. If you have no traction, then you are managing nothing. If you only have a bit, then it will for the most part, handle it better than other drive layouts.

For 4WD to be an effective solution for snow and ice, it needs suitable tyres. My Evo knows its place in such conditions - on my drive.

It has AD08's on the front and 452's on the rear, so it is just a bit of a mess in snow. A very fun bit of a mess, but a mess nonetheless.

Coming from a 4WD owner - 4WD should come very low on your list of buying criteria in this country unless:

  1. You live off road
  2. You specifically want a 4WD as a driving dynamic

Because if you do otherwise and unless you buy a spare set of wheels and appropriate tyres, you are just investing in:

  • Higher drivetrain losses (and therefore poorer fuel economy, and lower usable power)
  • More to go wrong (More mechanical bits)
  • More weight (Mechanical bits weigh more)
  • Potential higher comparable servicing costs
  • Encourages lazy driving

To elaborate on the last point, and this may be just me, my driving has got a lot lazier since buying the Evo. It requires little skill to drive it quickly but rather more to drive it well. I trail brake, I lift off mid corner, I brake mid corner, and just generally point it wherever I want to go and put my foot down and it sorts the rest out.

This is fine as long as you drive what you drive, but this poor driving was really highlighted on the Porsche experience day I did. Some of the habits i've picked up are shocking.

My advice is stick with what you have or would usually buy and buy another set of wheels and winter tyres if you are really concerned.
 

Liampope

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Dogbreath said:
To answer you question, a 4WD vehicle will typically have a lockable diff between the front and rear axles, and a high/low range in the transfer box. AWD cars normally use a simple viscous coupling (e.g. Freelander), or some kind of hydraulically actuated limited slip diff to distribute torque between the front and rear (e.g. VW Haldex) but typically can't be locked and don't have high/low ratios.

4WD is for proper off roading, AWD works well on slippery roads to get the power down but not usually suitable for any kind of serious off-road use.
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Just to be pedantic, and because OP is already confused and mislead by terminology and marketing blurb, that's not really strictly true at all. 4WD simply means 4-wheel-drive, i.e. anything with 4 driven wheels, 4x4 is an old term a bit more technically specific meaning a vehicle with 4 wheels and 4 are driven (similarly you get 4x2s, 6x4s, 6x6s, etc), and all-wheel-drive must have been dreamt up by some annoying cheesy marketing guy. In reality the terms do not officially, or even consistently accross different manufacturers, refer to particular mechanical implementations/layouts.

For example, countering your descriptions above, Subaru refer to their cars as AWD, yet they are full time 'proper' three-diff 4WD systems, not at all like the Freelander or the Haldex system. Plenty of vehicles have been called 4WD or 4x4 with part-time systems with no centre diff to lock or dual range. I'm sure I've read Audi refering to Quattro as 4-wheel-drive and all-wheel-drive on the same webpage, and they definately unashamedly refer to the two completely different mechanical systems they employ under the same banner. If you dont think an AWD is suitable for any kind of serious off-road use, better tell that to The All Wheel Drive Club :p:)
 
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