Azhar Ahmed

[FARGO]

Pathetic. From all viewpoints.

 

[badcompany]

I suspect some who frequent here hold similar views tbh.

 

[Longbow]

There's a bit more to it that simply being offensive though isn't there? Racial isn't the right word but it's promoting a kind of inter-cultural hatred ....

Kind of sums up you with regards to Cameron doesn't it? If Azhar Ahmed gets arrest for what he says, you should be next on the list for your hated of the current government.

Totally right to be arrested. Should back our armed forced to the hilt, its bad enough they are getting killed over there. The last thing you want is idiots back home spouting a load of rubbish. Let them get away with it and more will follow. The country as a whole should be proud of the forces and things like this show a very obvious divide forming.

Why should we feel pride for what our armed forces are doing?

 

[greywolf]

What utter nonsense. We should back the troops no matter what they do? So, the American soldier who killed numerous children and families should be let off? The British soldiers who arguably committed war crimes in Korea shouldn't be investigated and challenged?

The fact is, soldiers can and do do bad things. They shouldn't be given carte blanche to do what they want just because they are a soldier. They are people and are open to criticism much like anyone else.

I agree with cheets, he phrased it poorly but he's clearly angry about innocent people in possibly his home country being killed by British soldiers. I appreciate collateral damage, but there is no excuse for the killing of innocents in the vast majority of cases. An innocents life is just as valueable as a soldiers.

Freedom of speech is much more important than upsetting the odd dead soldiers mother.

My reply was not direct at individual soldiers and their actions, you just assumed that. Plus I never said no matter what they do. But backing the armed forces (as a whole) and the families of those who have lost is very important imo.

Freedom of speech is much more important than upsetting the odd dead soldiers mother.

That is just massively insensitive.

Why should we feel pride for what our armed forces are doing?

Whilst I feel afghan is a waste of time. I do think we should still have pride for the men and women serving yes. They do not choose where they are sent, and have a difficult job on hand.

 

[Ahleckz]

My reply was not direct at individual soldiers and their actions, you just assumed that. Plus I never said no matter what they do. But backing the armed forces (as a whole) and the families of those who have lost is very important imo.



That is just massively insensitive.

I support the personal of the armed forces, they have a job to do and they ought to get the best equipment that we can afford and have the backing of a modern support system with modern technologies.
My criticism would be more directed towards those in charge that make the political decisions initially to deploy forces and then to those in charge who make operation decisions which cause the potentially unnecessary loss of innocent lives.
I won't support the military "to the hilt" because that would be wrong.

As for backing the families, I'm less sure because I'm unsure of what backing you are referring to. They should be offered emotional support, as should anyone whos loved one dies, and the bravery that the soldier has hopefully demonstrated should be praised. However, we should also recognise the deaths of the civillians who our soldiers have killed. This is something that is rarely done.

As Longbow says, there is no reason to be proud of our soldiers anymore than I'm proud of the bin men that collect my bin on time each week and take all my rubbish away. The soldiers decide to go into the job that they do and are aware of the possibility of combat deployment. I'm not particularly proud of anyone who does their job to the degree to which it is expected. Some soldiers do things which make me proud to be a compassionate human being. Others do things which make me feel utter disgust for the human race. A soldier, doing his job, does nothing which makes me feel pride for him, the human race or Britain.

It's not insensitive at all. Why should the majority give up their freedoms just to satisfy the happiness of a few mourning parents?

 

[RDM]

The problem is that we do not actually know what he has been arrested for. We know it has something to do with the facebook post but that may not, in of itself, be enough to lead to arrest. Especially on racially aggravated charges. It is quite possible there is more to this story than we currently know.

However "just facebook" isnt really an excuse, depending on your settings Facebook could quite easily be seen as a public space. We need to stop thinking of online as a differnt world with different rules applying.

 

[Sho]

I bet ya if a non-asian person made a comment like that, wouldn't get charged for it.

 

[mmj_uk]

Totally right to be arrested. Should back our armed forced to the hilt, its bad enough they are getting killed over there. The last thing you want is idiots back home spouting a load of rubbish. Let them get away with it and more will follow. The country as a whole should be proud of the forces and things like this show a very obvious divide forming.

That's the sort of mentality that Germans had circa WW2.

Obviously I don't agree with his "all soldiers should die" rant but before he went off on one he made good points, we lose one soldier and the nation/media is in mourning and yet there have been over 100,000 civilian deaths at the hands of our forces since the occupations began (source Wikileaks).

What makes our soldiers lives any more valuable than those civilians we're killing? if you put a lion in a cage to protect a cat from a dog and he kills both whose fault is it? nobody has the backbone/will to question authority anymore, we're pretty much ripe in the West for a new warmonger like Hitler to come to power.

 

[Andy]

Whilst I feel afghan is a waste of time. I do think we should still have pride for the men and women serving yes. They do not choose where they are sent, and have a difficult job on hand.

But they do get paid for it, know what they are signing up to and are not forced into it.

If you don't like foreign policy don't join the army. I have no additional respect for our armed personnel than i do for anyone else.

 

[greywolf]

I support the personal of the armed forces, they have a job to do and they ought to get the best equipment that we can afford and have the backing of a modern support system with modern technologies.
My criticism would be more directed towards those in charge that make the political decisions initially to deploy forces and then to those in charge who make operation decisions which cause the potentially unnecessary loss of innocent lives.
I won't support the military "to the hilt" because that would be wrong.

As for backing the families, I'm less sure because I'm unsure of what backing you are referring to. They should be offered emotional support, as should anyone whos loved one dies, and the bravery that the soldier has hopefully demonstrated should be praised. However, we should also recognise the deaths of the civillians who our soldiers have killed. This is something that is rarely done.

As Longbow says, there is no reason to be proud of our soldiers anymore than I'm proud of the bin men that collect my bin on time each week and take all my rubbish away. The soldiers decide to go into the job that they do and are aware of the possibility of combat deployment. I'm not particularly proud of anyone who does their job to the degree to which it is expected.

It's not insensitive at all. Why should the majority give up their freedoms just to satisfy the happiness of a few mourning parents?

Yes, the political decisions are not always of the best and its the armed forces that then have to deal with it.

As for backing the families pretty much what you said. However dislike the negative and way beyond the mark comments such as from Azhar Ahmed. You can express your view point without resorting to the way he put it. I would not want any family who had lost a soldier to have read what he wrote.

Yes civillian losses are bad, and reporting could be better.

The pride towards the armed forces is that yes they do choose to join, although in doing this show bravery and a devotion to queen and country. I suspect most would not be willing to take the risks they do, more risks than a bin man.

I would hope the majority do not share the total view of Azhar Ahmed, and the way he presented it.

That's the sort of mentality that Germans had circa WW2.

Obviously I don't agree with his "all soldiers should die" rant but before he went off on one he made good points, we lose one soldier and the nation/media is in mourning and yet there have been over 100,000 civilian deaths at the hands of our forces since the occupations began (source Wikileaks).

What makes our soldiers lives any more valuable than those civilians we're killing? if you put a lion in a cage to protect a cat from a dog and he kills both whose fault is it? nobody has the backbone/will to question authority anymore, we're pretty much ripe in the West for a new warmonger like Hitler to come to power.

Firstly I don't want it to end up as you put it the Germans circa WW2. When I say to the hilt, its obviously with current policies. If those incharge were to go extreme, then yes this view would change. However, I don't see this happening to the level you are comparing it to occuring anytime soon.

The life is only more valuable in the sense they are from your country and so it is reported on more. In reality no, they are another human and so the loss is the same. Yes many civillians have been lost, and its terrible. As I've said I don't think we should be there.

 

[elmarko]

I'm right wing and i think this is ridiculous, maybe you're forgetting but it's the left-wing that has a history of thought police and the nanny state.

I agree, which is why I'm highlighting how funny it is now - left/right wing are both supporting exactly the same kind of rubbish.

 

[Gilly]

I have a lot of respect for our service personnel.

That doesn't mean I back our military to the hilt full stop.

 

[TJM]

The problem is that we do not actually know what he has been arrested for. We know it has something to do with the facebook post but that may not, in of itself, be enough to lead to arrest. Especially on racially aggravated charges. It is quite possible there is more to this story than we currently know.

After working in the criminal justice system for several years, I am sure this is what happened:

Cops saw the post and thought 'How nasty, that must be illegal or sumthing'
A local prosecutor on charging decision duty was talked into approving a racially aggravated charge and failed to read the CPS guidance on what constitutes race ("persons defined by reference to race, colour, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origins" - note that professional occupation or anything like it is not included).

I expect that the racial aggravation element will be dropped at the next hearing and Ahmed will get a fine for a Section 5 public order offence.

Whilst I feel afghan is a waste of time. I do think we should still have pride for the men and women serving yes. They do not choose where they are sent, and have a difficult job on hand.

Anyone who has joined the Army in the past decade knew what they were getting into.

I have a lot of respect for our service personnel.

That doesn't mean I back our military to the hilt full stop.

I agree entirely. People join for all sorts of reasons that I can respect (wanting to escape from their jobless towns, serve their country, etc), but I have no respect or any sense of deference towards the military as an institution. It soaks up huge amounts of money that should be spent elsewhere and is often used aggressively.

 

[Spenty]

But they do get paid for it, know what they are signing up to and are not forced into it.

If you don't like foreign policy don't join the army. I have no additional respect for our armed personnel than i do for anyone else.

Oh dear, you should at the very least have additional respect for their bravery. People like you are the reason this country is no longer the strong patriotic nation we used to be.

 

[Defcon5]

How do we know he didnt post something else that was removed?

 

[Xordium]

I'm not particularly proud of anyone who does their job to the degree to which it is expected.

What a strange point of view. So you never feel proud when people win gold medals? I mean they are only athletes doing their job, or how about charity workers in 3rd world hellholes I mean they signed up for it right?!? The last time my football team won something I was rather chuffed I didn't go - "meh, just doing your job why should I get all excited."

 

[scorza]

Kind of sums up you with regards to Cameron doesn't it? If Azhar Ahmed gets arrest for what he says, you should be next on the list for your hated of the current government.

How does criticising the government even slightly equate to promoting cultural hatred? Besides, I don't hate everything the government is doing - I think Cameron et al are doing fine work reigning in multi-culturalism. I suspect that the arrest of Mr Ahmed is in part due to a change of policy in Westminster.

 

[realBabelfish]

I think so.

Really, criminal proceedings for that? What a waste of time. I'd rather we spent resources on actual misery causing criminals, let alone considering how this might affect the poor guys life.

but then the old bill would have to do some real work and not sit in an office looking for an easy ride.

i cant see how what that guy said was harmful, apart from his grammar.

 

[George Hincapie]

I think he should be shot...for appalling grammar

 

[Xordium]

but then the old bill would have to do some real work and not sit in an office looking for an easy ride.

i cant see how what that guy said was harmful, apart from his grammar.

Well if that's what they got him on then judging by your post ... you're next.