Being headhunted, feeling dispirited at work, but at the centre of a brand new project…need advice

[dirtychinchilla]

Hi guys,

I’m in need of some advice. It’s tearing me up inside at the moment and whilst my wife is great to talk to, I need some more input. I've sort of been posting about it here already, but I'm feeling so conflicted so sorry in advance for the wall of text.

I’ve been working at the same company for 8 years as of next week. I’ve been there more or less since I left university, and I’ve got from CAD engineer to product manager in that time. I love the company, but in the last year I’ve been feeling like it’s too unstructured and I’m not really learning anything any more. I’ve expressed this in part to my two directors, who I have a very open dialogue with and a good relationship.

They gave me a poor pay rise recently and that, combined with how I’ve been feeling, have made me want to look for a new position. I don’t feel that I should have to fight to be paid a decent wage for what I’ve achieved. They are planning to come back to me before next pay cycle with a better figure, but part of me thinks they should have started with a better figure.

So, my CV is out in the world. I’m being headhunted now. I’ve had two interviews in two days for decent companies. One at least would give a much better package than I’m on now and that I’m expecting to get from my current employer. I also believe it’ll give me more structure so that I can really grow professionally. So as you’re reading this I’m imagining you’re thinking, that sounds like a no brained.

My current company has been like my home for 8 years though. In the last month or so they’ve started an expansion program and are bringing on new engineers and business development managers to form part of a new team, which I think I might be at the head of. Certainly my boss seems to be indicating that I’m a key player in that an I am the only expert on my product. He also made the comment that if I left there would be a hole that could easily be filled, but I don’t actually think I believe that.

So I’m feeling so conflicted already. My boss rang me earlier really excited about this new team and all I can think about is how I un-excited I am and that I’m sort of cheating the company and really, just not being honest with him about how I feel, which isn’t how I like to do things. But, I also don’t believe they’ll ever have the structure I feel I need because they never have done before and the boss is too much of a free thinker to bring structure in.

What I’d love to do is speak to someone in my company and explain how I’m feeling to see what they think, whether the opportunity really is in my current company for me or not. The general manager can be discreet, but he’s a bit of a bulldog. He’s also HR and can be objective when required. I feel like I should speak to him about how I’m feeling…or would that likely lead to my being screwed over?

I suppose I should remind myself that I’m in the process of buying a new house. I don’t actually have any offers on the table, though I am being put forward to second interviews at the moment. Should I just sit tight and feel ****** for a while until something proper happens?

New team is forming next week with new hires arriving the week after. And I’m in the middle. And I feel deeply uncomfortable.

Sorry for the long read…I’m trying to get my head straight. Thanks in advance for your time.

dirtychinchilla

 

[Randomface74]

HR are not there to help you. Their purpose is to protect the company from you. Don't trust them.

I was in a similar situation to you. Then the company got sold. Then most people either quit or got redundancy. Family feeling company basically gone.

Trying to find a job after being at the same place for so long is tough. It's pretty daunting and in tech things have moved on. Defo believe there's a downside to staying at the same place too long.

I think it's a no-brainer in your situation coz ur clearly not happy where you are. The change would be good. Better package helps too.

 

[turbot1984]

He also made the comment that if I left there would be a hole that could easily be fill

That is universally true, no one is indispensible, CEO's PM's, it doesn't matter.
An old QS gave me some great advice years ago. If you don't feel you are being paid what you think you are worth, get a new job. Sounds like you are on this path already but positive action also helps with motivation and broadens experience. Good luck.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

HR are not there to help you. Their purpose is to protect the company from you. Don't trust them.

I was in a similar situation to you. Then the company got sold. Then most people either quit or got redundancy. Family feeling company basically gone.

Trying to find a job after being at the same place for so long is tough. It's pretty daunting and in tech things have moved on. Defo believe there's a downside to staying at the same place too long.

I think it's a no-brainer in your situation coz ur clearly not happy where you are. The change would be good. Better package helps too.

I guess you're right. It could definitely backfire on me. I guess I'm just scared of it backfiring and burning bridges with my current company, which I do love in many ways. I want to be able to speak to my directors and explain to them why I want to leave without them taking it personally, but I can't see that happening.

That is universally true, no one is indispensible, CEO's PM's, it doesn't matter.
An old QS gave me some great advice years ago. If you don't feel you are being paid what you think you are worth, get a new job. Sounds like you are on this path already but positive action also helps with motivation and broadens experience. Good luck.

You're right. I also think I'm not giving them good value at the moment either because I'm feeling so demotivated.

 

[Kenai]

I would have thought if this new team is 'forming next week' you would have been told if you were heading up, rather than 'i think i might be'? If there's that little structure that it actually is the case such decisions aren't firm yet, I can see why that lack of structure would be starting to get to you - I couldn't work like that effectively.

To me, reading your post it sounds like in your heart you're already half way out the door. I recall reaching a similar point with my first employer - it felt as though despite several promotions I was taken for granted somewhat and they had started to treat me with an air of 'he won't leave, don't worry', so anything I pushed for always fizzled out. Once i'd reached that point, I needed to move on, even if they'd bettered my alternative offers, I wouldn't have stayed - i'd already mentally moved on.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

I would have thought if this new team is 'forming next week' you would have been told if you were heading up, rather than 'i think i might be'? If there's that little structure that it actually is the case such decisions aren't firm yet, I can see why that lack of structure would be starting to get to you - I couldn't work like that effectively.

To me, reading your post it sounds like in your heart you're already half way out the door. I recall reaching a similar point with my first employer - it felt as though despite several promotions I was taken for granted somewhat and they had started to treat me with an air of 'he won't leave, don't worry', so anything I pushed for always fizzled out. Once i'd reached that point, I needed to move on, even if they'd bettered my alternative offers, I wouldn't have stayed - i'd already mentally moved on.

Weirdly, it's already my job title - Sector Manager for Education. But it doesn't describe what I actually do. I wouldn't know how to or even want to manage that team though.

I think I am mentally moving on, like you did, but it's bloody painful!!

 

[turbot1984]

I guess you're right. It could definitely backfire on me. I guess I'm just scared of it backfiring and burning bridges with my current company, which I do love in many ways. I want to be able to speak to my directors and explain to them why I want to leave without them taking it personally, but I can't see that happening.



You're right. I also think I'm not giving them good value at the moment either because I'm feeling so demotivated.

Get some confirmed offers on the table then have a word with the Directors.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Get some confirmed offers on the table then have a word with the Directors.

That's what I've been thinking. I just don't want a plan to be formed that I'm at the centre of, and then bail out.

 

[ivrytwr3]

I would say it's a no-brainer to move, but then i started reading about how the company is growing and there is the potential of you heading up the team.

I would be gathering evidence on what your position pays and present it to your company - you want them to beat that. If they say they are unable to do so, then there is your answer, they don't value you and are prepared to lose you and all that corporate knowledge.

It may feel like a family, but they are profiteering off you and you are not seeing your fair cut.

 

[randomshenans]

I don’t feel that I should have to fight to be paid a decent wage for what I’ve achieved

As much as I agree with this, I disagree in equal measures. Well, I agree you shouldnt have to, but in my experience this is literally always the case. My wife has been working for 16 months now in a new role, which is 3 times the work her old one, as they "promised" her a promotion but only once she'd done that job for a year. The year has passed and guess what? No promotion. You'd think it should be a no brainer but companies and people are tools.

but part of me thinks they should have started with a better figure.

Again, I think it's a combination of companies getting away with paying you as little as possible (all comes off the bottom line) and a lack of market intelligence to understand what people are paid in specific roles.

But, I also don’t believe they’ll ever have the structure I feel I need because they never have done before and the boss is too much of a free thinker to bring structure in.

This says it for me really. Put it this way; they chuck 10k more a year at you, you work on this new thing. 6- 12 months later it's still all over the place, no structure and nothing else has changed. Will you be content, or will that 10k pay rise only get you so far? I think working out really what your catalyst is for being unhappy is important and what you need.

Should I just sit tight and feel ****** for a while until something proper happens?

I would. Or, I'd look at what was important to me and what needs to change in your current situation for you to feel happier about the situation. I get the feeling reading this, that it'll only happen from a move, but that's not for me to decide. I'd look at what's out there, spend time on that and see what your options are. Then, once I'd seen if the grass is potentially greener or not, and you have options, have that conversation with your org.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

I would say it's a no-brainer to move, but then i started reading about how the company is growing and there is the potential of you heading up the team.

I would be gathering evidence on what your position pays and present it to your company - you want them to beat that. If they say they are unable to do so, then there is your answer, they don't value you and are prepared to lose you and all that corporate knowledge.

It may feel like a family, but they are profiteering off you and you are not seeing your fair cut.

I've already done that actually. Presented an average salary £9k above what I've just been bumped up to and they're coming back to me. But no way is it going to be £9k. It might be half that, and I'll be pulled out of the bonus scheme to make my income more predictable. I interviewed for a position yesterday that was more in that region, with a bonus and car allowance, so I would guess in the region of £10-15k above what I'm on now once all's said and done. That's hard to resist.

Honestly, I'm thinking of framing it in the sense of "I was headhunted and they made me an offer I can't refuse."

 

[dirtychinchilla]

As much as I agree with this, I disagree in equal measures. Well, I agree you shouldnt have to, but in my experience this is literally always the case. My wife has been working for 16 months now in a new role, which is 3 times the work her old one, as they "promised" her a promotion but only once she'd done that job for a year. The year has passed and guess what? No promotion. You'd think it should be a no brainer but companies and people are tools.

Fortunately it wasn't just me who pushed back, but I think I wrote in another response here that I'm not even sure I'm giving them good value at this point. They want to line their own pockets, of course.

Again, I think it's a combination of companies getting away with paying you as little as possible (all comes off the bottom line) and a lack of market intelligence to understand what people are paid in specific roles.

They claim a robust and objective process to establish mean salaries, but I think they've not hit the mark.

This says it for me really. Put it this way; they chuck 10k more a year at you, you work on this new thing. 6- 12 months later it's still all over the place, no structure and nothing else has changed. Will you be content, or will that 10k pay rise only get you so far? I think working out really what your catalyst is for being unhappy is important and what you need.

I would. Or, I'd look at what was important to me and what needs to change in your current situation for you to feel happier about the situation. I get the feeling reading this, that it'll only happen from a move, but that's not for me to decide. I'd look at what's out there, spend time on that and see what your options are. Then, once I'd seen if the grass is potentially greener or not, and you have options, have that conversation with your org.[/QUOTE]

I might be projecting excessive negativity, I don't know. A load of that will also be due to COVID and having been trapped at home for so long.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[ivrytwr3]

Well you could refuse their offer - providing your current company value you.

How much will they have to spend to get someone new in and get them up to speed. You are in a good position!

 

[wesimmo]

I'm pretty certain if this was your 2nd or 3rd job out of university you wouldn't be having this dilemma.

It's natural that the only place you have ever worked, and done so for some time, has a pull on you, or that the thought of somewhere else is daunting.

But reading between the lines, they're the only reasons for not moving, not because you don't know in your heart of hearts it's the right thing to do professionally.

Take it from me, working somewhere that you have such a fundamental difference in philosophy / culture is never great.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

The first move is always tricky, and gets more tricky the longer you stay IMO. Friends and work mates who moved quicker than I did ( I took 6 years the first time) seemed to adapt and find far less stress in it.

Definatly do not speak to or warn anyone of your views, keep it to yourself. Should anything go sour they will hold it against you.
Find a new job and say sorry letting you know asap but I have found a new job, at that point you will find out how much they value you.

My second employer I did that, told my boss. 15 minutes later I had the "can I have a word" conversation. He had called his boss who worked 100 miles or so away and he had said he would be on site the following day and we had to sit down and discuss what I wanted to stay. I gave them a proposal they matched most of it and I stayed.
Couple of years later, same company different boss and bosses boss, same situation, very similar chain of events and same end result.
6 months later I got another new boss (very big company and people moved a lot in the area I worked in). He was a ****, and useless, so I took voluntary red as they had just announced to remove 20% of management roles.

The only time you will see from most employers how much they really value you and want you is when you are walking out the door.

 

[peterwalkley]

Lots of sound advice in here already, but my two-penneth:

You should continue looking elsewhere, if only at the least to work out whether the grass really is greener out there. A firm offer gives you a choice and right now you don't have that. As already said, don't talk to HR - they are not there for you. It also sounds like a small enough company that the conversation would get passed immediately on anyway and then you're a marked man.

The new team which you *might* head up smells like the classic fake promotion: new job title, extra work and responsibilities, no more money. Depending on how often its paid and what percentages, being dropped from the bonus scheme also sounds a bit off - give with one hand and take away with the other.

Have you had any involvement with recruitment for the new people ? If not and you're supposed to head up the team, then why the hell not - some would reporting to you and others would be people you have to work alongside.

I didn't move on from my first company for nearly the same time and in hindsight should have jumped earlier.

 

[Quartz]

They gave me a poor pay rise recently and that,

So, my CV is out in the world. I’m being headhunted now.

Move.

The new team which you *might* head up smells like the classic fake promotion: new job title, extra work and responsibilities, no more money.

This.

 

[dowie]

My current company has been like my home for 8 years though. In the last month or so they’ve started an expansion program and are bringing on new engineers and business development managers to form part of a new team, which I think I might be at the head of.
[...]
What I’d love to do is speak to someone in my company and explain how I’m feeling to see what they think, whether the opportunity really is in my current company for me or not. The general manager can be discreet, but he’s a bit of a bulldog. He’s also HR and can be objective when required. I feel like I should speak to him about how I’m feeling…or would that likely lead to my being screwed over?
[...]
I don’t actually have any offers on the table, though I am being put forward to second interviews at the moment. Should I just sit tight and feel ****** for a while until something proper happens?

New team is forming next week with new hires arriving the week after. And I’m in the middle. And I feel deeply uncomfortable.

If the new team is forming next week and you think you're due to be the head of it then why haven't you been officially told that yet? Is it just some vague promise? On what basis are you claiming that you'll be the head of it - if it is from your manager saying something to you then why not push them for clarity?

Why not talk to your manager and HR/general manager - you should be proactive about this sort of thing, send them an e-mail to arrange a meeting/zoom call and talk about your progress in the company, highlight good stuff you've done and that you'd like to take on some new responsibility and see what they say about this new team. Ideally, this ought to have been something you're explicit about over time rather than a week before some new team is formed - like in your annual reviews do you mention taking on more responsibility, taking on a team/progressing to a team lead/manager position etc...? It is something you should really be discussing in advance with people and then you're kept in mind for this stuff or tested by being given more responsibility on some project etc.. and/or you can refer to this when these opportunities come up.

IF you are due to be offered some team lead/manager role then basically find out about it now, a clear promotion, if these other potential future job offers aren't offering one, is something worth sticking around for and doing for a bit - as your exit options after having done that role will tend to be far better.

As for your interviews - they're irrelevant, you don't have any offers so there isn't anything to discuss about those with your manager, it would be very silly and a very quick way to screw your career progression, bonuses etc.. to highlight that you're merely interviewing/considering leaving.

Basically don't organise a meeting/have a talk if you're just going to drop hints that you're thinking of quitting etc.. it's far better to organise a meeting to push them on your progress within the company and what you can do/what positon you can take on etc..

 

[kindai]

That's what I've been thinking. I just don't want a plan to be formed that I'm at the centre of, and then bail out.

You owe them NOTHING.


Get some better offers on the table, if you truely want to stay where you are when these offers come in, go to your boss and say "ive been offered this, can you better it?" and if the answer is no, bye.

 

[dowie]

You owe them NOTHING.


Get some better offers on the table, if you truely want to stay where you are when these offers come in, go to your boss and say "ive been offered this, can you better it?" and if the answer is no, bye.

That can work, but it's perhaps better to proactively ask for stuff/work towards it than to just come out with some treat to leave out of the blue.