Being headhunted, feeling dispirited at work, but at the centre of a brand new project…need advice

[fatbatman]

Wow that’s amazing! What is it that you do? Are you accepting any of them?

They’ll just have to get someone who isn’t up to the job and will accept a low salary, I’d imagine.

Thanks for checking in. I have an interview on Monday, which is for a company that I was very keen in. But, one of my colleagues also interviewed for one of the jobs there (we aren’t competing, different technical expertise) and he said it’s a huge amount of travelling, which I’m not up for.

I was feeling terrible about the new team etc but on Thursday morning I had a call that an opportunity I’d created has come through, and we’ll be getting some projects from it. I’m not a salesman but I can create business for the company if I want to. That’s sparked an understanding of this new project team, and suddenly I feel really motivated again. I’m actually excited about the new project.

So, real turn around and honestly, I feel good. I’ll do the interview, question them more on the travelling, and hopefully get an offer. Then I’ll have to decide what to do with it.

My boss did call me the other day and said, “I can see your CV is still up. Should we be worried I?” I fobbed him off a bit and made some points about salary and lack of guidance. Hopefully they’ll take root at some point, particularly if I receive a competing offer. I specifically told him their salaries aren’t competitive for example.

So the next week will be interesting…having said that, we’re moving house on Wednesday so that’s my real focus right now.

I work in DevOps

Yes I've made a decision on which offer to pursue, however I would probably accept a matching counter offer on reflection as my decision to look elsewhere is obviously motivated by finances - not taking away that they are also good opportunities.

I guess the company hasn't really looked into the market rate for the role I am in. My boss and I have a very good relationship and I am an integral part of my team. She is aware of this huge discrepancy also, but its quite difficult to ask HR for such an increase!

Anyhoo, I have very good options either way and I'll have my decision made by Monday evening.

 

[MissChief]

I work in DevOps

Yes I've made a decision on which offer to pursue, however I would probably accept a matching counter offer on reflection as my decision to look elsewhere is obviously motivated by finances - not taking away that they are also good opportunities.

I guess the company hasn't really looked into the market rate for the role I am in. My boss and I have a very good relationship and I am an integral part of my team. She is aware of this huge discrepancy also, but its quite difficult to ask HR for such an increase!

Anyhoo, I have very good options either way and I'll have my decision made by Monday evening.

How much will the company need to offer an equivalent hire if you leave? How long will it take a new hire to get up to speed and match your output and how much money could the company miss out on until then? That’s the conversation your boss should be having with HR.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Why don't you sit down and have a chat with them?

Sorry but it just seems ridiculous that you're coming out with comments about how you think you might be leading a new team but weren't sure etc.. you've got to push for these things sometimes and make things clear to others too RE: expectations, salary goals etc... much better to be proactive about this stuff.

there is literally nothing wrong with arranging a meeting and putting the onus on them - asking for some promotion or new responsibility, telling them what your salary objectives are, what you'd like to make next year and the year after etc.. and push them for a pay rise now if you're underpaid. Don't just be fobbed off, have the meeting, speak to them and then follow up - like a week or two later send an e-mail or have another conversation and get a firm answer etc..

I am talking to them, but that doesn't mean that they always listen. I am trying to be proactive and I've challenged them on salary expections, for example, a number of times.

The only positions above me in this company really are directors, GM, and then a couple of heads of business. I'm not ready for any of those roles.

I'm working on it all

I work in DevOps

Yes I've made a decision on which offer to pursue, however I would probably accept a matching counter offer on reflection as my decision to look elsewhere is obviously motivated by finances - not taking away that they are also good opportunities.

I guess the company hasn't really looked into the market rate for the role I am in. My boss and I have a very good relationship and I am an integral part of my team. She is aware of this huge discrepancy also, but its quite difficult to ask HR for such an increase!

Anyhoo, I have very good options either way and I'll have my decision made by Monday evening.

Very good, is that interesting? I know nothing about it unfortunately.

Should you stay at a company that has cronically underpaid you though? I see that as them not having good perception of your value. Best of luck anyway!

 

[fatbatman]

How much will the company need to offer an equivalent hire if you leave? How long will it take a new hire to get up to speed and match your output and how much money could the company miss out on until then? That’s the conversation your boss should be having with HR.

Probably similar to what I'm after! My boss has obviously already raised these points a few months back. It's a very large organization so nothing happens overnight and I think my resignation kind of forces their hand.

I am talking to them, but that doesn't mean that they always listen. I am trying to be proactive and I've challenged them on salary expections, for example, a number of times.

The only positions above me in this company really are directors, GM, and then a couple of heads of business. I'm not ready for any of those roles.

I'm working on it all



Very good, is that interesting? I know nothing about it unfortunately.

Should you stay at a company that has cronically underpaid you though? I see that as them not having good perception of your value. Best of luck anyway!

Yes it's pretty challenging and interesting.

I too would agree with what you have said, however a few things come in to play.

The organisation is massive so it's highly likely I've just become lost in the big wheel so to speak.

The role has evolved over the last 3 years into what it is today.

My boss and I have a really good relationship, she is on my side and has said she will do her absolute best to keep me.

I have nothing to lose anyway, so will see what they come back with.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Well that’s good, sounds like it’ll turn out very positively for you. I’d be excited!

 

[dowie]

Yes I've made a decision on which offer to pursue, however I would probably accept a matching counter offer on reflection as my decision to look elsewhere is obviously motivated by finances - not taking away that they are also good opportunities.

I guess the company hasn't really looked into the market rate for the role I am in. My boss and I have a very good relationship and I am an integral part of my team. She is aware of this huge discrepancy also, but its quite difficult to ask HR for such an increase!

Would be near impossible in some cases as just a general request or even with some promotions - one thing you might not be aware of is that some organisations have max % amounts for internal pay rises - circa 20% or 15% which would require a v.senior exec to override (rare but this happened to a friend of mine - internal move, new team was looking to pay min of circa 80k for the role, he was on 40k... hiring manager let slip and was later like "erm I can push for 50k, sorry", friend decided to quit)

Now you're talking about an increase of 40k + 10 k bonus

Even with your manager going higher up to get approval it can be rather different if you're talking about a role that currently pays say £35k getting boosted to £75k + bonus than say a role already paying 75k being boosted to 115k + bonus.

In the former case it might be a company with low salaries, low budget all round - they might simply not have the budget to pay that sort of rate and/or perhaps wouldn't want to if they have say "senior" developers on 50-60k etc...

Some companies in the UK do underpay IT staff... if you want money then banks (and similar) + tech firms that have them as clients likely offer the most money... + of course big US tech firms.

 

[fatbatman]

Would be near impossible in some cases as just a general request or even with some promotions - one thing you might not be aware of is that some organisations have max % amounts for internal pay rises - circa 20% or 15% which would require a v.senior exec to override (rare but this happened to a friend of mine - internal move, new team was looking to pay min of circa 80k for the role, he was on 40k... hiring manager let slip and was later like "erm I can push for 50k, sorry", friend decided to quit)

Now you're talking about an increase of 40k + 10 k bonus

Even with your manager going higher up to get approval it can be rather different if you're talking about a role that currently pays say £35k getting boosted to £75k + bonus than say a role already paying 75k being boosted to 115k + bonus.

In the former case it might be a company with low salaries, low budget all round - they might simply not have the budget to pay that sort of rate and/or perhaps wouldn't want to if they have say "senior" developers on 50-60k etc...

Some companies in the UK do underpay IT staff... if you want money then banks (and similar) + tech firms that have them as clients likely offer the most money... + of course big US tech firms.

I think it's a case the current company are paying me based on a previous role I had and because we are so big I kinda fell under the radar. My role now has significantly more responsibility and has greatly evolved over 3 years which is why market value has changed. I became aware after my manager pointed out that I was massively underpaid and asked HR to re-evaluate my role a few months back.

The difference in pay takes me into 6 figures.

Either way I'm not really fussed as I'm happy to jump ship if the company don't match salary.

I know it's a hard position to fill, it's pretty normal to take around a year or so to find the right person for the role and then you have recruitment agent fees etc.

We will see

 

[fatbatman]

Apologies for derailing your thread btw!

I think you have to look at circumstances whether you accept a counter offer. If you're at a small company where the owners / directors deal with you directly and your salary, I'd be concerned accepying a counter as I would feel my card is marked.

At larger places (my current company is 10000+ staff), I wouldn't be as concerned as you're probably just a small fish and no one cares.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Apologies for derailing your thread btw!

I think you have to look at circumstances whether you accept a counter offer. If you're at a small company where the owners / directors deal with you directly and your salary, I'd be concerned accepying a counter as I would feel my card is marked.

At larger places (my current company is 10000+ staff), I wouldn't be as concerned as you're probably just a small fish.

That’s quite alright! It was too much about me anyway.

Yeah I work for a company of maybe 100 so I have a close relationship with the directors.

 

[Dup]

Not at the same level but I did ~10 years at a company and worked my way up to a degree but was never compensated nor challenged like I could have. When I left I was on 24k and had to take a 50 mile commute over a 12 mile commute for a 19k a year job to get into a career. Now I'm 35 and only just about getting paid for what I'm capable of 4 jobs later (I'm a web developer)

The company had ~40 employees when I left and most of which I knew on a personal level. I loved working there and the people for the most part but the work itself just wasn't a career. Low level dev stuff, customer service and a bit of product input but as it was a small company I also supported the IT side of things between two offices 200 miles apart and also for some offices my boss rented out in our building. It was a chore and I wasn't paid right.

When I left the boss had my respect. I was honest and said the excuses about me were not good enough and that I know they will just distribute my responsibilities to the rest of the team like I was never there. I did it 10 years too late but it was the best decision I have ever made. I've learnt and done so much more since I left and learnt that loyalty and settling for things as they are just damages your career and for me it also damaged my mental health.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

That’s great that you could have an open and honeys conversation. I hate burning bridges so that is incredibly appealing to me.

Just had an interview at the prospective company. Seems decent, seems like quite an intense situation and they’re desperately in need of a bigger team. They really want me to manage my most hated competitor, but there is another job which is the one I’m interested in. It was quite far away, which I wasn’t keen on, and couldn’t tell me yet what new policies will be after the 12th April.

Had an email from my current workplace today saying that from the 12th April, everyone must be in the office. Completely backwards. I guess, for me, it’s so that I engage with this enormous new team I have. Nuts. I really enjoy working from home so it’s not ideal.

 

[MissChief]

That’s great that you could have an open and honeys conversation. I hate burning bridges so that is incredibly appealing to me.

Just had an interview at the prospective company. Seems decent, seems like quite an intense situation and they’re desperately in need of a bigger team. They really want me to manage my most hated competitor, but there is another job which is the one I’m interested in. It was quite far away, which I wasn’t keen on, and couldn’t tell me yet what new policies will be after the 12th April.

Had an email from my current workplace today saying that from the 12th April, everyone must be in the office. Completely backwards. I guess, for me, it’s so that I engage with this enormous new team I have. Nuts. I really enjoy working from home so it’s not ideal.

That seems very short sighted. It smacks of micromanagement and someone feeling powerless without people to order around. The idea of not even doing a phased return or having mixed days with some in and some out is likely to put the backs up of a lot of people. Millions have yet to have the vaccine and really should still be social distancing, especially at work where door handles, toilet handles and items in the kitchen are going to be touched dozens of times a day. It’s asking for an outbreak tbh.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

That seems very short sighted. It smacks of micromanagement and someone feeling powerless without people to order around. The idea of not even doing a phased return or having mixed days with some in and some out is likely to put the backs up of a lot of people. I’ll ions have yet to have the vaccine and really should still be social distancing, especially at work where door handles, toilet handles and items in the kitchen are going to be touched dozens of times a day. It’s asking for an outbreak tbh.

Good point about the outbreak. I’m vaccinated but only because I’m at risk. The toilets and kitchen are what bother me most. We can apply to be in the office part time with a “legitimate” reason, but I know why they’ve done it and I’m a big part of it for my part of the office. This new team I mentioned, they’re all engineers fresh out of uni and I have to look after them. They want us (me) in the office to ensure that they’re learning. I have only been on the office once in about 6 months, hence why I’m the target.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Update: had the interview on Monday. It went well, but they want me for the job which would involve me being the product manager for my most hated competitor, which I simply won't do. They have another opening, but I don't know whether they want me for that. I get the feeling that they have some more qualified candidates, so watch this space I guess!

We moved house on Thursday, so that's taken up most of my mental space, and finally seeing my family again, which has been lovely.

 

[MissChief]

Update: had the interview on Monday. It went well, but they want me for the job which would involve me being the product manager for my most hated competitor, which I simply won't do. They have another opening, but I don't know whether they want me for that. I get the feeling that they have some more qualified candidates, so watch this space I guess!

We moved house on Thursday, so that's taken up most of my mental space, and finally seeing my family again, which has been lovely.

Take them down from the inside!!!!

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

OP: Always look after yourself. You don't owe the company anything.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

OP: Always look after yourself. You don't owe the company anything.

I am. Work seems to have become a very confusing place recent. Had one person move on and another made redundant, both long term and seemingly vital staff. I’m going to keep looking. Got a recruiter very much on my side.

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

I am. Work seems to have become a very confusing place recent. Had one person move on and another made redundant, both long term and seemingly vital staff. I’m going to keep looking. Got a recruiter very much on my side.

Another thing to consider is don't trust the recruiters either. They just want someone to the fill a position for their cut .

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Another thing to consider is don't trust the recruiters either. They just want someone to the fill a position for their cut .

I’m aware of that, don’t worry he’s not your normal recruiter from my perspective. Self employed and has placed loads of guys all over the place in my industry, which he seems to hit up on a regular basis. When I’ve put my foot down about certain things he’s respected it completely. Just asks that I keep an open mind basically.

 

[Calranthe]

I have read all of this with interest, the advice is sound and giving good perspectives, all you can do is be true to yourself and make these coming decisions based on what feels right, you are not asking for more than you are worth or deserve.