Best old school AV amp ???

9designs2

9designs2

9designs2

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Having a rethink on the AV side of my set up, so I can focus effort and money on the stereo side....(new stereo pre amp is coming my way on Saturday :eek: !!!!)

So what WAS the best old school AV amp, so will not have HDMI and the all that jaz. I would rather get a better BD player with 5.1 analogue out and use a better but older AV amp or AV pre amp, I have spare power amps.
My theory is the used market will be a wash with some golden oldies as they don't have the latest bells and whistles....BUT will have better audio qualities.

Throw some ideas at me guy's ......
 
I have used a Yamaha AX1 for the past 8 years or so.

Bought it for about £700 and have been exceptionally impressed with it.

TBH having tried a few similarly priced 'modern' units i've yet to hear any that come close - as a consequence i've never considered upgrading it.

I'd say anything around that kind of standard (some of the older and larger Denon's, Yam's and Onkyo's etc) would be ideal if you're not interested in HDMI and new fangled processing. Always liked the look of the Yamaha AZ1.

gt
 
I've had a Denon avr-1603 for a few years now, I love it, fantastic sound quality and plenty of input\outputs. Should be able to get one quite cheap now. I paid £150 for an ex-demo one from superfi.
 
I use a Marantz SR5000 which I've had for about 9 years now. It's beautifully powerful, and sounds delightful. The warm and rich Marantz sound is fabulous, and (to my ears and tastes) sounds so much nicer than current similar price ranged (£500) amps of today, which I find to clinical, bright and harsh, which is why I've not upgraded as I can't find anything for the sort of money I can afford (well, I can't actualyl afford anything....but at a price I could justify at least) which sounds anywhere near as nice as my Marantz.

(Had a look on the bay and there is one there for £14.99 with no bids at present, in the Herts region - would be a brilliant piece of kit for a tiny price!!

Valve
 
gt_junkie, thanks for the ideas..... Fatp' and Yam, think you looking at the wrong end of the scale... I meaning what "Hi end" but OLD AV amp would be good. You know it cost 4k .... 5 years ago, and now can be had for 500 etc...
I already have AVR2106 kicking about, which is a "budget amp".......

I currently use Linn AV pre and powers, which I would down grade to fund upgrades on the 2 channel gear. So I am expecting a drop in performance, but as it's "only" for movies I could live with it for better "stereo" in another room.
 
I had a Denon AVC-10SE (from new) up until a few weeks ago and it always turned in a good performance with movies. I can't comment on it for pure stereo duties as like you I had dedicated stereo amp(s) for non av duties - I used the front pre-out to feed my non-av side :)


I'd be looking to either something from Denon if you want to keep the number of boxes down or if that's not an issue just get something like a Meridian 568 and put those spare power amps to good use! :cool:
 
No worries fella, happy to help!

Sounds like a decent plan. As i say you'd probably be happy with any of the older 'heavyweight' amps.

Before getting the AX1 i was looking at the Denon AVC A1 and SE versions too but the SE in particular was way over budget. :eek:

To give an indication of the quality on offer i actually use a Cyrus seperates system comprising a CD7Q, Smartpower amp and PSX-R power supply using decent quality interconnects and playing through a set of Wharfedale Pi-40's.

I used to run a Cyrus aCA7.5 Pre amplifier with the setup but actually ended up selling that and using the AX1 in 'processor direct' setup since there was virtually no drop in quality.

Let us know what you decide on! :)

SenTineL's idea of a processor to go with the power amps is a good one! :cool:

gt
 
What budget are you looking at?

In the integrated range, it's quite possible to get something like an old flagship Yamaha or similar for £300-400. Having said that, that would result in a lot of unused power amps in the Yam as I'm assuming that you'd be using the Linn system to power the fronts (at least).

If you're talking bigger budgets, then the power amp/processor option is the obvious route. You could stick an OK power amp on the rears (I use a cheapy Kenwood integrated) and spend the rest on processor.

The question then is how do you deal with HD audio.
Option 1 would be a good BD player with analogue outputs into a processor with analogue ins. Problem is that you then need a good BD player, which again cuts into the budget. The Denon 3800 is consider to be the dogs danglies on both visual and audio and can be bought for around £800.
For a processor, the unit consistently considered to be around the top of the heap is the Proceed AVP2. I believe that there is a variant with 5.1 inputs. Further options include the Naim AV2 and Bryston SP1.6.

Option B is a HD capable processor, which would mean that you could get away with pretty much any cheapy BD player (e.g. Sony 360 or PS3) thus saving money towards the processor. Under £1k I'd look at the Audiolab 8000AP. Gets a lot of positive comments and the only thing that put me off was the fact that it's an Audiolab and I've simply never enjoyed any of their gear that I've heard.
Above that there's some Onkyos, but I get the impression that they've no better than the 8000AP. Then you're into the bigger league stuff like Lexicon MC12, Classe and Meridan xxx with HD621.
 
Some interesting ideas guys….. To be honest I'm having a nightmare working out where I want to take the system. So many options, and though I have a healthy budget it does have its limits !!!!

It was easy living alone in Italy, one room did both AV and Music…. The Linn AV pre amp I have, Kinos, is equally good at music as it is movies, matched to a stack of power amps I was running active front and centre and passive rears.

Now back in the UK, and with a new g/f , thinking it's better to have the lounge as "AV" and a spare bedroom as "music" 2 channel. For those times the TV is needed ;-) (oh I need a Plasma as well !!!)
So was thinking to down grade the AV performance to one big old Hi End box for some bargain ebay price.

Then continue upgrading the music room. Already agreed a deal on Linn 2 channel pre amp.
So having less Linn boxes means having fewer better ones ;-)))). So the music room for amps is sorted, as is the source.

What to do with speakers becomes even harder!!!!......... I think I have too much kit …LOL
 
I have a Yamaha DSP-AX620 which was a What HiFi 5 Star unit - i paid £100 for it, i didn't know about the What HiFi review at the time.

TBH unless you get an all analog 5 channel amp i wouldn't go with the older = better idea for AV amps.

Analog stuff has just got cheaper (ie the process) over the years and quality has suffered. Digital stuff generally has got better as well as cheaper so an older amp with digital stuff might not be as good.

I know mine suffers massively on any 44.1kHz inputs as it's internal DSP clock runs at a 48kHz multiplier base.
 
Tag AV32R ideally the DP so you get room EQ, and a 5.1 analog bypass so you can use the bluray players analog outputs.

That said imho the HD codecs are almost a waste of time, I've compared my old AV32R (SP and no 5.1 bypass) running in good old fashioned DTS(but from bluray its always full bitrate), and bluray also outputs Dolby as 640kbps instead of 256-440 from dvd... anyway I've compared it to an onkyo integrated AV Amp, capable of Dolby TrueHD, and DTS Master Audio.. and guess what. I prefer the sound from my Tag Processor and rack of poweramps to the integrated. My system sounded clearer, more detailed .. just better really :)

Full bitrate DTS is very good quality, and unless your prepared to chuck 10k+ on amps and speakers I simply havent found that "HD" codecs make an audible difference even DolbyDigital +(@640kbps) is damn good, the rest of the electronics are more important in this case than the source material. Its just my personal opinion of course.
 
Not everyone likes the Tag/Audiolab presentation, but then again there are lots of other brands that have gone for similar sounds, Cyrus to name just one. I think Tag is Marmite, if you like it you will love it... otherwise you'll find it unbearable.

I started out with a Humble Audiolab 8000S, and ended up with an AV32R driving a rack of oldschool black made in UK Audiolab 8000M's :). Another advantage is the AV32's DAC's are great, so you can use a PC or CD player as an audio transport, and it will sound great for stereo music too.

Oh yeah, for what its worth, In addition to having tryed the Onkyo 875's integrated amps, I also tried it driving my rack of 8000M's so it was just a pre-processor... I still prefered the DTS core from the AV32R :), and so did my girlfriend.
 
Corasik, spot on.... I find the same, though I haven't a top end BD player to try what could be possible from an "HD" sound format over analogue. But the output from a "budget" one playing HD layer is nothing near my Linn Processor working with the DD or DTS track over spdif from the same player.
Interesting your comments that even with external power amps, the performance is still not there...
I think I am going to have to keep the Kinos, which is a 5K pre amp, with DTS/DD 24/96 DAC and 5.1 in etc, as I would miss it too much.

Was just an idea if I could down size AV for 2 channel upgrade.... will just have to save hard and do both excellently ...LOL

Look out for feedback on the new Pre amp over the weekend :D
 
I think you'll have to spend big money to improve on the Kinos, RE: the Marmite, A Tag would definatly have a different presentation to the Linn processor, even if you use your existing power amps, I guess the Kinos didnt get a 5.1 bypass which was a really nice feature on the Tag. But I think you'll have a serious problem finding something which outperforms your Kinos at all.

I guess you were hoping to trade in the Kinos for good money and upgrade the 2 channel side of things.

If your after a cheap and cheerfull short term solution, you could try and find a Yamaha DSP E800 second hand, it wont be a patch on your Linn, but it is surpisingly entertaining for movies, supports DD/DTS and has a 5.1 channel analog input as well. It has amps for centre/rear only, or it can be used as a pure pre amp. Its a little dated now, so you should be able to find one for next to nothing, and it will allow you to focus on the 2 channel system, while still enjoying a bit of movie surround.
 
Corasik said:
If your after a cheap and cheerfull short term solution, you could try and find a Yamaha DSP E800 second hand, it wont be a patch on your Linn, but it is surpisingly entertaining for movies, supports DD/DTS and has a 5.1 channel analog input as well. It has amps for centre/rear only, or it can be used as a pure pre amp. Its a little dated now, so you should be able to find one for next to nothing, and it will allow you to focus on the 2 channel system, while still enjoying a bit of movie surround.
Click to expand...
Good alternative option.

I've used one myself (and even the 'Dolby Surround' e492 before that) and both were surprisingly decent for the tiny outlay.

gt
 
The Kinos is actually a full 5.1 analogue pre amp, with DAC's as well. Hence it is not a compromise for music. Has no HDMI, but has Component switch etc, and video overlay for OSD and menus/setup etc.... Yes I'm not going to find any better (Ok I'm biased ;-)...But if i listen to music in another room I only need AV duties from it..... Even so, I've decided now.... It stays. I'll down size the number of power amps and speakers used a little in the lounge to focus on the music room.
So will use say a single 5 channel power amp ( Linn AV5125)

Tried my main speakers (Dynaudio DIY jobs !!) in the music room last night... So much better than the Linn Kabers I was playing with.....

So AV room could be BDP -> (SPDIF) to Kinos -> AV5125 -> then either Linn Kabers and Tukan speakers, or Dynaudio Audience 122, 122C and 42 Rears... Plus Linn 5105 Sub.
And a Panny V series plasma, (See other thread).

Music room will be Akurate DS, Klimax Kontrol, Klimax Chakra twin, 2250, Tunebox with active cards and DIY Dynaudio's..... Plus LP12.... And my Unidisk 1.1 gets traded in on Saturday :(
 
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