Bioshock Ending ( Is that it?? ) : Spoilers inside maybe

I also found it a big dissapointment compared to SS2 (which was a masterpiece). No real RPG elements, no inventory, few enemy types, few weapons, miles too much ammo everywhere, poor last third of the game (after you know who dies), very poor and unsuitable end boss, and poor ending. Also you didn't have to make any real choices about what to spend adam on since you had bought everything by the end of the game, thus meaning there's no point in a 2nd play through (whereas in SS2 there's at least three very different ways you can play it). Plus the harvest/save decision ended up being meaningless since you got more or less the same adam either way (due to the gifts). And the 'twist' in the story was the same twist from the SS2 story.

The setting was good, and Andrew Ryan was an interesting character, but the rest was a dissapointment, far too consolized and dumbed down, and not deserving of the awards it won since there were several better games released last year (stalker, supcom, crysis). People who think it was awesome should play System Shock 2 to see how an RPG/FPS should be done.
 
hehe, i pretty much thought stalker sucked more, mostly because its biggest flaw was the same as Bioshock's. theres a new trend to make "action rpg's" where the main character can massively improve his strength/health/stamina/powers. but this isn't ofset like in normal rpg's by fighting harder and harder enemies who ALSO gain in all those ways. stalker, about an hour in you can get all the artifacts you need to be basically unkillable and a weapon thats stupidly accurate and powerful.
same deal with bioshock, an hour in you can boost strength/lastability so much you can beat a Daddy to death with a damn wrench.

so whats missing, its like playing a game through with cheats, with invunerability on, which removes challenge, skill, excitement, tense moments, not knowing how to take on a situation, tactics all flies out the window when you can simply kill everything so easily. Crysis, stalker and Bioshock all suffered from a severe and massive lack of unique enemies. Stalker had nothing interesting start to finish, Bioshock had daddys, but introduced them WAY too early and made them insanely easy WAY to soon, apart from then the splicers were uninspired and samey, and the end boss was so ridiculously easy i had the same reaction as everyone else, "wtf, that was it? no, a super big bad dude will pop out now, right....................." . Crysis, here fight one of TWO different aliens, how much fun will that be, woooooo. oh, or a korean dude.

Supcom is only a massive dissappointment as everything was so incredibly similar, including so many almost identical units to the first game with a very limited number of really new units and those were all later game not very used units. Very few rts's have managed to get around the "zerg rush" of any type of unit, even the cheapest most pathetic. Its nice that you can use whatever your favourite unit is, but when you find that unit, its all you use and the game is too easy.
 
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In stalker, the monlith guys at the reactor are way harder than the bandits in the first zone. They often kill you in one shotgun blast (unless you're wearing the exoskeleton). But stalker is clearly aimed in the direction of realism, so they haven't just given latter enemies 300x the health of early enemies as you would get in a fantasy RPG, rather they just have better gear (better suits, better weapons) but will still go down with one headshot as they should. It would be silly if you had to put 200 rounds into every enemy just because they were near the end of the game.

Also the artefacts don't make you hugely harder, the best you can have through artifacts is probably 10% bulletproof (nothing compared with up to 60% from your suit) and a health booster (which achieves surprisingly little), your other 2 slots will be taken up with stamina (unless you like walking everywhere) and sometimes anti-rad artefacts.

There's plenty of hard bits in stalker too, the freedom checkpoint (if they're your enemies) to get into the red forest, the freedom base, the whole of the red forest, getting into the reactor, the last level through the secret door, getting into X18 plus X18 itself, getting through the 2nd half of the bar, none of those bits are easy. I found the difficulty just right myself.

Anyway, it's the ambience and the intrigue of the setting (the real place is fascinating in itself) that makes stalker stand out, and the spectacular modelling of the NPP (assuming you did the proper ending and got to play the last level) and Pripyat. Ok, it's not the game they promised but if you can see past that it's still excellent.

As for SupCom I've played it tons multiplayer and it's the best RTS since AOE2/Starcraft and the first good one that's been 3D. It's also the most in-depth RTS I've ever played. When you're talking about 'the original game' I was talking about supcom not FA, FA is just an expansion (even though it's standalone) so expecting everything to be new is unrealistic. I love them both though, they're the first RTS that have been worth putting any time into for many years. Btw there's anti-rush options too.

You seem to have low opinions of some very fine games IMO. Anyway, the point I was making is that I personally enjoyed those three games I mentioned a lot more than Bioshock. Bioshock badly failed to live up to the Shock heritage (and I expected it would, so it's not like I had urealistic expectations).
 
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I did enjoy Bioshock - the game was great the ending was crap!

Going onto what Fish99 is saying about Stalker, I found it quite different. The fights were a bit hit and miss for me - the realism was okay but not the best I have ever enjoyed.

What did it for me in Stalker was that the playing area was very small. You go out of the area and you get the stupid radiaition effect. I'm sorry but if I want to go over a hill then I should be allowed to if not then don't include it or put a bit wall around it at least then I know I'm not meant to go there.



M.
 
There's very few bits you can't get to safely once you have decent anti-rad protection (the three scientific suits have 90% rad protection, and two of them also have good bulletproof), just the very top of the heaps in the garbage, and you can always just go round them. The only other bit the game stops you exploring is the front of the NPP because of the blow-out, but you can get round that with mods.

The areas are definitely much too small though, that's one of the cuts that were made (along with removing vehicles, joining factions, sleeping etc) to get the game out once they lost funding from THQ and had to finish the game with their own money. Sad because it could have been twice the game it is. You just have to look at the map - that whole rectangular area was going to be in the game, whereas we ended up with about 30% of it.
 
Firstly, Sup com is a complete rehash of Total annihilation but in 3d with 5 new units. they called a few units different names but most of them were all but identical. the game is 10 years old or so, it was world class, it was/is fantastic. Supcom bought entirely, i mean completely nothing new to the table at all. ok scroll zooming is great to that degree but thats it. TO anyone that played TA and waited 10 years for a sequel, i think we mostly expected a touch more effort and originality than mostly the same units but prettier. i was bored in minutes.


On to Stalker, firstly 2 artifacts about an hour into the game gave +300 or 400% health and -100% bleeding(edit, wasn't clear, that was EACH artifact, not combined), almost invunerable at that point, i found another 2 way before all the later game stuff, basically unstoppable. why need stamina to run everywhere, its a small game, you could run around and do all the side missions, except they are completely worthless, as was the faction rep stuff as was, most of it.

story, weak as hell. you start off the game not knowing who you are, you are told to kill a guy, thats it. Within minutes you are told to just murder people with no reason. most games let you choose to be a murderer or give you a damn good reason why you should. they are evil and genocidal people, you are saving lives, blah blah blah. or , sneak towards the core and well, they might shoot at you so you have no choice but to shoot back. but here, its just, go murder these guys and i can't be bothered to tell you why. THe story makes little sense anywhere in the game, and is mostly terrible coupled by awful endings, all of them.

AI, terrible, missions, awful with most of them completely pointless. quest rewards or stuff you can get in shops after, all available as random finds WAY before you can buy them. The two good fights in the game, the very first farmhouse(ignoring lack of reasoning) is great, scripted and hard, the next scripted attack is in the car junkyard place. the enemy are heavily scripted, an attack begins, they actively search and hunt you down, this doesn't happen anywhere else in the game in the same aggressive way. infact most of the game they will basically only run behind nearest cover and run from one side of it to the other, or run completely away.

first upgraded gun you get, that ak47 with increased fire, firstly, increased firing rate leads to less accuracy in real life(more bullets = more recoil = less accuracy). yet that gun was over its non improved version, more powerful about 20x as accurate and fired faster. the same non improved gun you aim properly at a wall and fire a single shot, aim at same point and the bullet would go almost anywhere in a certain radius, the improved version you did the same, you could pretty much hit the same spot time and time and time again. before headshots were almost impossible, especially at distant, all guns after that i could headshot most guys miles away before they could get close.

complete lack of balance in the game, stupidly easy, awful story, terrible endings, fantastic scripted attacks, only 2 scripted attacks, both scripted attacks in the first hour, nothing worthwhile after that point... some nice level/area design and nice atmosphere but did entirely nothing with it.
 
I tried to follow the storyline (I'm a slow gamer who tends to explore everything and read all diaries etc) but the problem is that you often don't get a chance to listen to the audio tapes... you start playing one and then some splicer/robot/whatever is trying to kill you so amongst all the sound and fighting you end up missing out on half of it.

Go to your menu and you can listen to all diaries & radio messages as many times as you like.

I found this very helpful.

:)
 
Great, so you didn't like it, but what's that got to do with Bioshock?

well i started off merely pointing out both games suffered the exact same main problem, no difficulty past the first 5% of the games. and thats still my point, almost every point thats wrong with stalker is wrong with bioshock. This whole fps action wannabe RGP genre thats gaining speed is, well, crap. because they all feature very very basic RPG elements but ignore most of the other idea's that make rpg's work. Thats ultimately why most people felt let down by bioshock and stalker.

Most games of any genre have increasing difficulty from start to finish, some get it a little wrong and leave you overpowered for the final few levels, or massively underpowered and insanely difficult. almost EVERY game ever made follows that idea, bioshock and stalker both massively fail at that. the end of both are ridiculously easy and the final "boss" in bioshock was beyond a joke.

As for having a go about whats it got to do with bioshock, read my first reply one sentence on stalker and why its got the same issues as bioshock. YOU followed up with 4 paragraphs on Stalker and a couple on sup com, yet I'm apparently not allowed to reply, makes sense.

The majority of people are like me in being massively dissappointed with Stalker, bioshock and, ok most like Supcom as multiplayer i guess, actually i don't know. I personally HATE multiplayer RTS's as, i dunno a game of CS someone gets peeved off and leaves for playing crap and it doesn't destroy the game, someone gets all angsty while getting battered after 5 hours of a RTS game and they leave, i just won't play rts's online. the single player is fairly dull, story was uninteresting and IF you'd played TA< the original, there was nothing new for a 10 year wait.
 
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well i started off merely pointing out both games suffered the exact same main problem, no difficulty past the first 5% of the games. and thats still my point, almost every point thats wrong with stalker is wrong with bioshock. This whole fps action wannabe RGP genre thats gaining speed is, well, crap. because they all feature very very basic RPG elements but ignore most of the other idea's that make rpg's work. Thats ultimately why most people felt let down by bioshock and stalker.
Fair enough, and I know Stalker had it's flaws. It was basically a half finished game thrown together from the bits they had done, but there was still enough there for me to enjoy it. I was particularly impressed by the NPP modelling, I thought the whole game was worth playing just for that, and I enjoyed the atmosphere and bleakness. I still enjoyed it a lot more than Bioshock, I really found everything in Bioshock dissapointing. It was just too consolized.

I'm guessing you've played System Shock 2, because that was RPG/FPS done near perfectly (apart from being a bit too small and the respawning). It's excellent co-op too.

Never played TA btw, but my brother was a big TA fan and loves SC/FA even more than I do. I agree the single player campaign is poor, but I love the skirmishes and LAN plan (never played it online).
 
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well i started off merely pointing out both games suffered the exact same main problem, no difficulty past the first 5% of the games. and thats still my point, almost every point thats wrong with stalker is wrong with bioshock. This whole fps action wannabe RGP genre thats gaining speed is, well, crap. because they all feature very very basic RPG elements but ignore most of the other idea's that make rpg's work. Thats ultimately why most people felt let down by bioshock and stalker.

Most games of any genre have increasing difficulty from start to finish, some get it a little wrong and leave you overpowered for the final few levels, or massively underpowered and insanely difficult. almost EVERY game ever made follows that idea, bioshock and stalker both massively fail at that. the end of both are ridiculously easy and the final "boss" in bioshock was beyond a joke.

As for having a go about whats it got to do with bioshock, read my first reply one sentence on stalker and why its got the same issues as bioshock. YOU followed up with 4 paragraphs on Stalker and a couple on sup com, yet I'm apparently not allowed to reply, makes sense.

The majority of people are like me in being massively dissappointed with Stalker, bioshock and, ok most like Supcom as multiplayer i guess, actually i don't know. I personally HATE multiplayer RTS's as, i dunno a game of CS someone gets peeved off and leaves for playing crap and it doesn't destroy the game, someone gets all angsty while getting battered after 5 hours of a RTS game and they leave, i just won't play rts's online. the single player is fairly dull, story was uninteresting and IF you'd played TA< the original, there was nothing new for a 10 year wait.
You keep editing :)

I listed what I see as the flaws in Bioshock and mentioned three games I enjoyed more, which you then attacked. I'm not saying they don't share some of the same flaws, just that I enjoyed them more and thought they were more deserving of awards than Bioshock, that's all. Anyway, I don't particularly share your opinion on the flaws of Stalker, I've played it twice now including very recently, and I loved it. I thought the difficulty was ok all the way through, I can't remember any bits that were either way too easy or way too difficult. It's open ended though, so everyones experience will be different. If you played it before the suit damage was fixed and you bought an exoskeleton early on, then sure it's probably pretty easy. It also has difficulty settings.

Also stalker isn't an RPG it's a mission based sandbox FPS. I have trouble calling Bioshock an RPG either since there's no character stats as such.
 
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