blue ray and HD dvd incompatable? compatable? make your mind up!

Soldato
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was just reading this http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6243383.stm

bbc said:
The two formats are incompatible with each other and so consumers are being asked to choose both the player and the system when moving to high definition.

then lower down on the same page

bbc said:
"The growth of the industry is much slower than it could be," agreed Dr H G Lee, chief technology officer of LG Electronics, which has announced the first player to accept both formats.

so bascialy is it going to be like the whole DVD+ and DVD- thing where it becomes a moot point as the players will just do both? or are we going to actualy have to make a informed (ie whatevers cheaper first) choise on this?
 
Well the two formats are incompatible, as they can't be read by the same laser. That player accepts both because it will have two ways to read a disc, one Blue one Red. Whats hard to accept about that?

//Edit: So far dual players have been blocked, but i think recently there might have been a turn in their favour, meaning heading somewhat like + and - but it's not really as simple I don't think.
 
LeperousDust said:
Well the two formats are incompatible, as they can't be read by the same laser. That player accepts both because it will have two ways to read a disc, one Blue one Red. Whats hard to accept about that?

//Edit: So far dual players have been blocked, but i think recently there might have been a turn in their favour, meaning heading somewhat like + and - but it's not really as simple I don't think.
thought they both used blue lazers rather than red?
 
I know the laser for each system is at a different wavelength (and are focused at different levels on the actual disc I seem to remember, maybe this is one in the same)

So yes they are incompatable (ie you cant put a blu-ray disc into a hd-dvd drive or vice versa and get anything out)

I am behind dual format players 100% but not sure one or more will come out for some time
 
I on the other hand, want one format to win. I'd prefer it to be HD-DVD as i already have the player, but i won't mind if Blu-Ray wins.

The reason? I want as much HD content as possible, and I can't see that happening if studios have a choice of HD formats to release on.
 
FrankJH said:
I know the laser for each system is at a different wavelength (and are focused at different levels on the actual disc I seem to remember, maybe this is one in the same)

So yes they are incompatable (ie you cant put a blu-ray disc into a hd-dvd drive or vice versa and get anything out)

I am behind dual format players 100% but not sure one or more will come out for some time
tbh LG already have a dual format player out iirc
 
VeNT said:
tbh LG already have a dual format player out iirc


In which territory ?- I couldnt find anything on the USA site and unfortunately the Japan site cant be read in English (darn it :D )

I heard LG were going to release one but not that it had already gone on sale.

Is it a set-top box or a computer drive?
 
VeNT said:
thought they both used blue lazers rather than red?

They both use the same blue wavelength lasers (405nm) but, the data on blu-ray disks is deeper down in the disks so a higher aperture lens is needed, probably because of the scratch resistant layer blu-ray disks have that hd-dvd don't.
 
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Energize said:
They both use the same blue wavelength lasers (405nm) but, the data on blu-ray disks is deeper down in the disks so a higher aperture lens is needed, probably because of the scratch resistant layer blu-ray disks have that hd-dvd don't.


I stand (partially) corrected :D

You (re)learn something new every day
 
Both HD-DVD, and Blu Ray use blue lasers, dont know if they are at different wavelengths, but the lens/focus system is very different between the two systems.

Blu rays' first layer is just a few microns beneth the playing surface of the disk, while HD-DVD (like DVD and CD) are almost on the top of the disk, just beneth the laser.

Which is best.. well no difference really, blu ray's have been given some extra protection with a coating, and anyway the media layer on a CD for example is so close to the top surface, in early production it was actually burned/destroyed by the use of cheap ink!, and CD's are prone to damage from scratches on the label side, which can expose the disk to oxygen and thus starts disk rot.

So both are fairly durable media, which with carefull handling will last a long time. Ok, so what next, we cant really compare picture quality, sound quality etc, because both systems use exactly the same codecs now (Early blu ray had 1 codec missing, but thats been fixed up now). Both systems have the same list of mandatory audio formats. Which is great, who cares about DD+, and the other new formats. Good old DTS, which can be encoded up to 1500kbps (full CD datarate) is great quality. Id rather listen to a good DTS soundtrack through my Tag AV32R, than a DD+, or even TrueDolby through some sony/pioneer/panasonic (whatever cheap hardware I could afford). Even though my Tag can only play the older formats, (Although it can be upgraded to DTS24/96:P ) it would take a very expensive piece of kit to really 'improve' on the tag's sound.

Ok, so Durability, picture/sound quality all the same... although blu ray does have a higher datarate 54Mb/s V 36.55Mb/s, so in theory the blu ray could have a 'less compressed' video stream.

So, the only real difference between them is capacity. 25GB/layer on Blu Ray, and 15GB/layer on HDDVD. Blu Ray disks with 4 layers (all on 1 side!) have been made apparently, so thats 100GIG!, although 50, and 25 are more common. HDDVD is normally 1 or 2 layers, but a 3 layer disk has been done, so max capacity 100GB V 45GB. Thats quite a difference.

Personally as there is nothing to choose from in quality, I'd pick the format with the biggest storage capacity. And thats Blu Ray. Sure there is a price premium on blu ray, as it takes new factories to make the disks, but if it wins, and gets established, then blu ray/hddvd, will be around the same price. (And im sure they will be a rip off, so that hollywood can make even more profits)

It also seems to me that the Blu Ray consortium has more consumer electronics companies backing it than HD-DVD. If you want HD-DVD your pretty limited in choise. Toshiba/Toshiba/Toshiba, Xbox360, or if your lucky Sanyo :P

Blu Ray on the other hand, has Sony, Panasonic, Phillips, Pioneer, LG, and JVC all working on players and recorders.

Although im sure that both high end, and budget brands will be working on players for which ever system wins the format war, blu ray does have the backing of a lot of 'mainstream' consumer electronics firms.

Hollywood doesnt seem to care, with most of them looking to release on both formats, except disney who are(were?) sticking with Blu Ray.

Finally, JVC have made a disk in their labs which would be a great thing to see real world. A full dual layer Blu Ray (50gig), with another DVD layer as well. (dunno if they can do full DVD9 combo). So it wouldnt be out of the question to make BD's which play in a DVD player at standard quality, and then magically transform into HD when played in a BD player :). Unfortunatly this is just in JVC's labs atm.
 
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Corasik said:
So, the only real difference between them is capacity. 25GB/layer on Blu Ray, and 15GB/layer on HDDVD. Blu Ray disks with 4 layers (all on 1 side!) have been made apparently, so thats 100GIG!, although 50, and 25 are more common. HDDVD is normally 1 or 2 layers, but a 3 layer disk has been done, so max capacity 100GB V 45GB. Thats quite a difference.


8 layer single sided blu-ray disks have been made by tdk.
 
VeNT said:
so bascialy is it going to be like the whole DVD+ and DVD- thing where it becomes a moot point as the players will just do both? or are we going to actualy have to make a informed (ie whatevers cheaper first) choise on this?

depends

the people who put all the money into their technology (sony with blu-ray, Toshiba et al with HD-DVD) would rather you didnt

but other electronics companys (like LG) can see the benefit in making a player that does both. They've announced the product, but its not available for sale yet i believe

it should be the way forward, but currentlly i understand LG could end up with a ton of law suits if they produce the product they want to.
 
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