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BMW and M Power Owners

Discussion in 'Motors' started by panthro, 12 Apr 2012.

  1. [TW]Fox

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 17 Oct 2002

    Posts: 158,142

    I think you'd have to be mad personally, you won't get one for much under 30k which is an absolutely ridiculous amount of money to spend on what is essentially now a 10 year old 3 series. They are quite dated inside. Can you afford an M4? At least you then end up with something reasonably special for the money which won't be quite as much of a depreciation nightmare when the market corrects itself.

    For 30k I'd rather sacrifice 2 cylinders and get a couple of extra doors and go for a 330i, a completely new and thoroughly more modern and better car. The previous gen 3 series on which the 4 was based was never a brilliant car but the current 4 series really is.


    These silly prices don't go away until people stop being happy to do this.
     
  2. ShivP

    Soldato

    Joined: 26 Oct 2013

    Posts: 8,980

    Location: Leicester

    There are quite a few on approved bmw website for under 30k
     
  3. Greebo

    Caporegime

    Joined: 20 Jan 2005

    Posts: 41,623

    Location: Co Durham

    Which with the continued shortage of decent used cars might well be not until 2023 after the new car market gets back to normal/
     
  4. [TW]Fox

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 17 Oct 2002

    Posts: 158,142

    Id want them to be under 20k and even then I'd think twice!
     
  5. [TW]Fox

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 17 Oct 2002

    Posts: 158,142

    Which unless you only keep cars for 12 months puts those spending silly money on older mass market cars at massive risk. 2023 isn't that far away...
     
  6. dLockers

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 21 Jan 2010

    Posts: 8,300

    Man shouts at basic economics
     
  7. MrRockliffe

    Mobster

    Joined: 14 Apr 2014

    Posts: 4,482

    Location: Sunny Sussex

    I agree with Fox here. Check out the G20 330i - it’s a very reasonable upgrade over the F30

    Though, it won’t be the car for you if you’re set on having a 6 cylinder coupe :)
     
  8. ShivP

    Soldato

    Joined: 26 Oct 2013

    Posts: 8,980

    Location: Leicester

    Exactly. I'm not after a coupe as such, I'd happily take a 4 series GC or 3 series but I just want a 6 cylinder
     
  9. MrRockliffe

    Mobster

    Joined: 14 Apr 2014

    Posts: 4,482

    Location: Sunny Sussex

    All I would say is test drive both gens back to back, and then make your decision.

    The sound don’t be as good, but the 2L in the 330i (B48?) is still very strong :)
     
  10. Kenai

    Capodecina

    Joined: 5 Apr 2009

    Posts: 22,056

    The only way you'll be doing that at the moment is to pay well over the odds and then live through financial ruination in 2 years time when it's lost about £15k of value.

    I just gave up looking for a 440i GC, they're getting to be increasingly stupid money.
     
  11. ShivP

    Soldato

    Joined: 26 Oct 2013

    Posts: 8,980

    Location: Leicester

    Comparative to the competitors eg audi s5 and the c43 the 440i is well priced though, presumably I guess because it is previous generation?
     
  12. [TW]Fox

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 17 Oct 2002

    Posts: 158,142

    Yes because it's that simple, right?

    There are a number of unique and unusual circumstances that have come together to seriously disrupt the market resulting in significant price inflation in used cars across almost across the board. This is effectively unheard of - outside of rare exotic models and sought after new cars with a waiting list used cars do not appreciate, they depreciate. Basic economics, right? Until the last 12 months, where everything has changed.

    The long term trajectory for the value of normal cars is not up. The market will eventually correct itself leaving a bunch of people who seemed to think paying massive amounts of money for ordinary cars was a good idea because hey, basic economics, right? So if you don't need a used car right now really the best thing to do is not buy a used car right now. When the market goes crazy, don't join the market.
     
  13. [TW]Fox

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 17 Oct 2002

    Posts: 158,142

    All three are actually of the same generation - but the 4 Series is older because its platform came out first.

    F30 3 Series platform (A 4 series is a 3 series, but when Audi made the A4 Coupe seem special by calling it A5 BMW had to follow) is 2011-2020
    A5 is 2016 to present
    C Class is 2014 to 2021.

    So you can see why the F30 feels so old and out of date inside - it's been around for ages - and why the A5 felt so much fresher - it was 4 years later to the party. Ok there have been a few incremental upgrades on the way, the later 3/4 Series had the newer iDrive etc but the cabin itself was average when new and worse now looking back.

    Usually this stuff isn't relevant because as a car dates, it gets cheaper. Who cares that a 3 Series is a bit old hat inside when it's £10-15k instead of £35k? Not many people. Only because of the weird market it isn't £10-15k instead of £35k...

    The F30 wasn't an amazing car when it was fresh and new in my view - I am a huge BMW fan (To the point that half this forum thinks I think they can do nothing wrong) but to me it's clear that it won't go down as being one of the great 3 Series. By massive contrast the new G20 is an absolutely brilliant car - so much so that you need to really, really, really want those extra 2 cylinders for it to make sense to buy the old one instead.

    And this was before the price went mad! As I said above I'd feel a bit disappointed to drive off in an F30 for £20k let alone nearer £30k.

    The exception to this will always be the M power models - these are more special, will always hold more appeal and will likely perform better residually. So if you must spend a small fortune on a dated 3 Series make sure it says BMW M POWER on the engine cover.
     
  14. dLockers

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 21 Jan 2010

    Posts: 8,300

    I don't want to get into the equivalent of a dowie hole here, but both BMW and Mercedes have already said that a race to the bottom is in neither companies interests and sustaining the prices that people are clearly willing to pay is a key part of their strategy going forwards.

    https://www.ft.com/content/f55a1d96-1146-4e17-88a9-1a0fbaf57de6

    Like I said, it is basic economics. If the market is willing to bear the prices currently seen - which is clearly is, the end will not be as simple as when "things return to normal". We are seeing shrinkflation on all new cars at the moment and it is setting the scene for what the future will look like.
     
  15. [TW]Fox

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 17 Oct 2002

    Posts: 158,142

    I don't think this translates to the madness in the used market. New car pricing hasn't gone that crazy really - the issue is supply and resultant hysteria talking up the market for used cars. Look at this thread alone for proof of that.

    BMW themselves have limited control (or even much interest) over the value of a 5 year old 3 Series for sale on Autotrader.

    You can still factory order a 330i right this second for a fairly reasonable £35k after discount. Only it'll take ages to arrive and you physically can't order half the options you'd want. But it isn't THAT expensive. Even the list price is only £40k - which accounting for inflation is cheaper in real terms than a 330i from 15 years ago.

    Brand new 330i costing £35k isn't why people seem to be falling over themselves to pay £29k for an old shape 330i.

    Infact there we go, that's how to win - trade your inflated value used car in for a nice brand new one :D
     
  16. dLockers

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 21 Jan 2010

    Posts: 8,300

    That's the arrow to the knee though isn't it. Most folk in this segment don't want to spank £35k on a car that is missing features their current car has. They also do not want to wait a year or two (or worse, an undefined amount of time) for the privilege.

    A colleague at work bought a new Puma and I was surprised to hear she had picked it up so quickly - she explained it was missing a few mod cons and went on to explain how the salesmen told her "if you haven't had them before, best not to get used to them" :rolleyes: (the list included auto air-con, rear camera, rear sensors, etc..)
     
  17. ChrisD.

    Caporegime

    Joined: 20 Sep 2006

    Posts: 27,090

    360 surround view. I have it in my F80 however as expected it doesn't look as nice as that does on the iDrive. It's still super handy though.
     
  18. [TW]Fox

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 17 Oct 2002

    Posts: 158,142

    I agree with you - but the supply issue is temporary. The manufacturers might want to sustain higher pricing for new cars - which is fair enough - but I doubt BMW want to sustain not letting people order a head up display or adaptive cruise on a 3 Series, do they?

    New car pricing is not the cause of the current ridiculous used car pricing, because as we can see if you CAN order a new car, its not exactly over inflated in cost is it. Even at list price £40k for a 330i M Sport seems like quite a deal when you consider how exceptional the standard spec is on them now! Yet still there are discounts on that. The issue is getting a build slot.
     
  19. dLockers

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 21 Jan 2010

    Posts: 8,300

    How long? The chip shortage is only going to get worse before it gets better. Normality by 2023 is seriously optimistic.
     
  20. ShivP

    Soldato

    Joined: 26 Oct 2013

    Posts: 8,980

    Location: Leicester

    My situation is I sold my old Ford Mondeo for around £1k more than it was usually worth - fine. Needed some money spending on it - cambelt, EGR valve etc. Didn't really think about the future though

    Either I buy what I want now, or wait to see what early next year holds (I guess absolutely no different market to this year). I do a 32 mile motorway round trip possibly 3-4 times a week to uni. I also have my grandads 2005 fiesta, it's not ideal on the motorway though and will probably **** itself at some point but I can have 'exclusive' use of it...