Its awesome that he's doing them good and they are getting 40k a year right up to the time when he's antagonised the senior leadership of his members employers to the extent that they feel they have no choice but to find ways of providing the service without a union.
Bob Crow - More harm than good for his members?
- Thread starter Danthus
- Start date
Its awesome that he's doing them good and they are getting 40k a year right up to the time when he's antagonised the senior leadership of his members employers to the extent that they feel they have no choice but to find ways of providing the service without a union.
He is perfectly equitable when negotiating with us. Some of his reps however are not. But this is immaterial, his job is to get the best deal for his members, and he has done so time after time.
Getting the best deal for his members while holding hundreds of thousands of people ransom with his needless striking. No one likes him and no one likes the strikes so it just reflects badly on ever member of lul staff.
Ah, so there is more to him than you see on the telly then. His job is to get the best deal for his members, but if he forces the Tube to go driverless early, he hasn't got them the best deal he can.
Not entirely surprised to hear he's equitable when negotiating.
Not entirely surprised to hear he's equitable when negotiating.
The are not bringing in driver-less operations because of Bob Crow or the RMT. It is purely a business decision.
We have around 65% Rail and 35% Bus operations by turnover, but our profit is generated almost the opposite, with 67% coming for the Bus operations. The main costs are not wages, but infrastructure and maintenance costs, and that is regulated so money has to found from somewhere and I suspect the TfL are of the same opinion.
It is nothing to do with strike action, but to do with cost cutting and unfortunately in regulated industries it is invariably cheaper and easier to cut staff.
I wonder if the union contributions are a fixed amount or a percentage. Either way the more they get paid the more he does. Its not as if he is an entirely uninterested party.
As is the Victoria line, which was also the world's first automated train for those claiming that Japan or whatever has had it years!
I new it was automated, but I'd never looked into what the 'Drivers' actually do on the line till now...
"The line is equipped with an Automatic Train Operation system (ATO); the train operator (driver) closes the train doors and presses a pair of "start" buttons, and if the way ahead is clear, the ATO drives the train at a safe speed to the next station and stops there. This system has been in place since the line opened in 1968, making the Victoria line the world's first full-scale automatic railway."
I still think staff onboard is very important though, especially for something as busy as the Tube.
The very fact that he can hold 'thousands of people to ransom' is why the Tube Drivers get paid as much as they do. We do not pay our Drivers so generously I can assure you.
I doubt that he really cares what people think of him either. I am unsure about driverless operations on mainline services, but I work predominantly in the Bus side of our business and we are not involved in tube operations so I am sure there are a bunch of spotters frequenting these forums that know more than I about it.
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Fixed, it's about £4 a week I think. Members get all sorts of benefits over and above the dubious honour of paying Bob Crow his salary.
'They' don't earn 35k. They start on 40k basic plus free travel for them and their partner (that must be worth something in 4 figures alone), get double the holiday of most people and earn ridiculous money for working bank holidays, which they want increased.
I doubt many realistically earn under 50k.
The moment he started boasting about striking on 29th April was the moment Bob Crow lost any last vestages of respect he may have had with me. Unfortunately, no such vestages existed.
The sooner the membership realise what he's doing to their prospects and kick him out, the better. Sadly, I don't think that's going to happen either.
The sooner the membership realise what he's doing to their prospects and kick him out, the better. Sadly, I don't think that's going to happen either.
If the costs of the human operators (and the fully loaded cost of a fte is about double his/her takehome pay) were lower then the business case to replace them would be weaker. Not to mention the cost of strike action to the business, you can bet that has been quantified even if its not for public consumption. That would make it into the business case. It may not be about them in the "lets get back at them" sense but if the overall cost of having human operators has not made it into the business case then the people writing it need to do a better job.
Ah the politics of envy. If it's such a good job why don't you apply?
There are a few driverless operations which work quite well. Personally I don't like the idea of automated trains, what next? Automated air travel? The principle is much the same and is proven to work (Predator?) but would you get on a plain with no pilot in the cockpit?
Tube/Train drivers get paid for what they know, not what they do. Much the same as signallers. While the job is hardly taxing when it's all working and going well, it's when things go wrong in an isolated situation that railway workers earn there pay.
I'm not defending Bob Crow, I can't abide the man as he causes me so much hassle you wouldn't believe but were I a member of the RMT then I can certainly see why they like him (he is decreasing in popularity though).
You can't really blame him for fighting for his members though, it is afterall what they pay him to do.
I would wage a lot of members here could have there jobs done, or at least some of it by robotics or by some means of automation. Would you be happy losing your job because of 'progress'?
Tube/Train drivers get paid for what they know, not what they do. Much the same as signallers. While the job is hardly taxing when it's all working and going well, it's when things go wrong in an isolated situation that railway workers earn there pay.
I'm not defending Bob Crow, I can't abide the man as he causes me so much hassle you wouldn't believe but were I a member of the RMT then I can certainly see why they like him (he is decreasing in popularity though).
You can't really blame him for fighting for his members though, it is afterall what they pay him to do.
I would wage a lot of members here could have there jobs done, or at least some of it by robotics or by some means of automation. Would you be happy losing your job because of 'progress'?
Don't believe everything you read in the papers. Pay is variable, but I know that they receive 7 weeks holiday including bank holidays which is the same as we give our staff across all our companies. It equates to the statutory 5.6 weeks plus bank holidays.
However, what they get paid doesn't matter, they are paid what they can negotiate, it is as simple as that and is true for absolutely everyone in the country.
You want ridiculous money for bank holidays, my wife took £451.65 gross for a half day on the last bank holiday...
I don't disagree with you, simply pointing out that the 'strike costs' are not really something that would make or break a decision regarding driverless operations.
Don't believe everything you read in the papers. Pay is variable, but I know that they receive 7 weeks holiday including bank holidays which is the same as we give our staff across all our companies. It equates to the statutory 5.6 weeks plus bank holidays.
However, what they get paid doesn't matter, they are paid what they can negotiate, it is as simple as that and is true for absolutely everyone in the country.
You want ridiculous money for bank holidays, my wife took £451.65 gross for a half day on the last bank holiday...
Who pays a prosser in anything but notes? (Sorry!)
I'm actually interested by the revelations about train drivers etc.
I wonder if they would be getting replaced if they had more reasonable salaries - 25K + OT/bank holidays for example. If they cost half as much and didn't have a troublesome union leader then would there be the same drive to get rid of them? You said earlier there would be, but I'm not so sure. The squeaky wheel gets the oil, etc.
You want ridiculous money for bank holidays, my wife took £451.65 gross for a half day on the last bank holiday...
I'm sure your wife does more than press 'Stop', 'Go', 'Open doors' and a few 'Mind the gaps' over the tannoy though.
Edit: actually, they have computerised the mind the gap now haven't they, why haven't they reduced pay?
