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Boris Johnson is considering a trade in price of £6K for an EV

Discussion in 'Motors' started by ShiWarrior, Jun 9, 2020.

  1. Journey

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 7,831

    Location: West Midlands

    Of the new cars sold in 2019, over 600k were Audi/BMW/Mercedes/JLR/Volvo. Last time I checked getting change from 30k was a hard job unless you are buying the lowest end model with the lowest spec. That's over 25% of the cars sold, and doesn't include the models sold by 'lower' end brands premium vehicles like a Focus ST, or VW Passat(s), etc. The fact that the entry level Fiesta is about £20k should tell you that new cars aren't cheap as chips, and those buying premium brands and buying hyped up SUV's will easily be paying that £34k average.

    The data is the amount of money that had been loaned to cover finance agreements, or paid for a vehicle and doesn't reflect the sticker price unless that was what was paid. If you lease a £50k car on a 3 year agreement, via PCP the total recorded is what ever was on the finance agreement with the GFV being what you owe at the end of you choose to pay it, it hand the vehicle back.

    Sorry missed I that, so you are not the target market and by the sound of things never will be. You can just wait until second hand EV's become affordable for you or what you are willing to pay.
     
  2. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 16,923

    Much more eco friendly than a massive Tesla.
     
  3. ShiWarrior

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 20, 2002

    Posts: 19,950

    Location: Oxon

    can you turbo it ?
    Super charge it ?

    ECU remap maybe ?
     
  4. ttaskmaster

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Sep 11, 2013

    Posts: 9,875

    And yet, there are enough brand new cars on today's market under a mere £10k, that they make lists such as the Top Ten, the Ten Best Performing and Ten Cheapest To Insure from them...

    But as you pointed out above, there were only 2.4million new cars sold in 2018, while 7.9million vehicle owners in that same year preferred to buy second hand.
    That would seem to suggest that far more people find new cars too expensive, and thus not 'clearly in the minority' as you claimed.

    Ford says it's £15k... You're clearly being fleeced! :D
    Are you looking at prices in Dollars, perhaps?

    So not actually the cost of the car, then, but the cost of the car, the finance, interest and any other gubbins slapped on top....

    Not at all.
    I'm not the target market because there isn't a single EV out there that I like, or that meets my requirements. Buying something like that would simply be a waste of money - Nothing to do with what I can or cannot afford.
     
  5. Journey

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 7,831

    Location: West Midlands

    You've never bought a new car in your entire life, why would you start now regardless of the propulsion/fuel method? You are not the target market.

    No, because if the person paid cash it is still recorded as the cost of the car being the cost of the car. If you buy it on finance then the cost of the car is also the cost of the car, the finance house providing the money is the one who takes the interest if there is any, so that isn't recorded.

    I wouldn't buy a Fiesta, so doubt I am being fleeced, merely used the data for the average cost of a new Fiesta that was bought. Doubt many of them sold were entry level with zero options, but agree that I missed the cheapest one .
    Ask yourself this in 2013 the lowest cost Fiesta was £9,995, and now as you said it is £15,995, which is 60% more expensive in 7 years. Why has it gone up 60% if inflation would only take that £9,995 to £11,540. Oh, yeah cars are getting more expensive from new.

    None of this changes the fact that the average cost of new cars sold in 2018 was ~£34k, way above what you can get a new EV for.

    Also I don't really give two hoots if you never buy an EV that is your choice, the more people keep spunking money up the wall into fuel duty and VED the better, as I'm not paying it (for now). ;)
     
  6. Woden

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 7, 2011

    Posts: 6,750

    Location: Oldham, Lancashire

    Are any of them on my way to work?
     
  7. MagicBoy

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 16,103

    Location: South Manchester

    Futile until they address the infrastructure issues. I don't have anywhere to install a charger. and the existing ones the council put in are monopolised by the local Nissan dealer.
     
  8. theone8181

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 27, 2013

    Posts: 4,164

    The deal might only be on new ones, but if a used one is 20k and a new one suddenly becomes 20k, who is going to buy used? Therefore used would have to drop otherwise they just won't sell. I see it as a good thing for used car buyers.
     
  9. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 16,923

    Same for many people in my town, except taxi drivers hog them all. Since the council put free chargers in they all bought EVs.

    Until charging is as fast as re-fueling this is going to be an ongoing problem.
     
  10. ttaskmaster

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Sep 11, 2013

    Posts: 9,875

    I'd never bought a brand new motorcycle in my life, until the day I did.
    I'd also never bought a brand new PC component in my entire life... until the day I did.
    What's your point? Am I not allowed to buy new things unless I've already bought new things, or something?

    My lifestyle requires a car. I have one of the kind they'd like to see gone and they'd very much like me to continue paying them for the priviledge. I'm very much their target market.

    And yet the stats vary depending on source, even those that claim to be using the very same data, so again I question their validity, especially if you're going to assume the rather skewed and widely varying reported average prices somehow reflect what people commonly can and cannot afford.

    The 'average' cost of a motor yacht is around £250 million, partly thanks to a small number of billionaires. The vast majority of people don't buy motor yachts up at that level, though, mostly favouring those below £10mil and most typically below £3mil.

    You still claimed that was the cheapest one, though. That's why I doubt your statistics.

    Cars are also getting more technology, which costs more. 2013 cars didn't have half the stuff 2020 cars do, and the current Fiesta range is not even a facelift but an entirely new generation.
    Try comparing like for like and finding out what a car with the exact same spec and build standard as a 2013 Fiesta would cost in 2020. Even a quick look at the dash, with all those fancy screens will give you some idea as to why they cost more.

    According to your one source, with which other sources using the same data disagree.

    It also doesn't prove that those who think that's too much are in any way a minority, or that it's in any way indicative of what's affordable to them. Rather, the introduction of a scrappage scheme and discount on a new purchase further substantiates the idea that quite a lot of people think it's too expensive!
    If it were just about controlling behaviour, generating sales and maximising profits, the government would simply bump up the taxation on ICE vehicles, like they do with alcohol and tobacco. No need to discount anything.

    You know someone is an EV owner because, like vegans, they ******* tell you about it!
    The main reason I never wanted an EV is because I don't want to end up a sanctimonious *****.... But I might do just that, purely so EV owners will sooner start getting screwed over by the government taxation.
    It still costs some money somewhere to charge that vehicle up and you'd be a fool to think otherwise... or that things will continue to appear cheap/free for very long.

    A new Zoe was something like £28k, I'm told (guy at work has one), so I doubt they'd be even £15k second hand.
    They might lose a few sales, but not that many.
     
  11. Journey

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 7,831

    Location: West Midlands

    So you all of a sudden are going to buy a new car since they are going to stop depreciating "the instant you roll it off the forecourt" that is not going to change really is it, so that can't be what has stopped you in the past really. Care to give a reason why all of a sudden you'd buy a new car, or just make up random reasons then backtrack?

    My statistics? They are Gov.uk sourced and from motoring data analytics firms who gather data for the Gov.uk and motoring manufacturers. Believe whatever you want, and deny what ever you want, does it annoy you that the average new car is ~£34k or something? What does it matter if you buy them second hand once they have dropped like stones?

    Wow, you sound like a proper nice person with all those stared out swearies, lucky for me I'm not a EV owner then, or a vegan, or maybe I dunno anything you disagree with.

    I suggest you change your tone, you sound like a bitter old man.
     
  12. booyaka

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jan 19, 2006

    Posts: 13,099

  13. b0rn2sk8

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 9, 2003

    Posts: 5,846

    Well that escalated quickly....

    I completely get why they are considering this kind of scheme. The car market outside the housing market is where consumers spend the most amount of money. Were heading for a fairly deep recession and they need to get people buying big ticket items and the car market has been in decline for a few years now. We also need to get ICE cars off the road as quickly as possible to meet net zero by 2050 and EV sales are not increasing as quickly as they would like. The main issue with this is that EV sales are not growing quickly due to a lack of supply not demand. If Kia/Hyundai shipped over 5X as many Kona's and Nero's than they are doing now they wouldn't have any issues selling any of them for RRP.

    I guess their a trying to nudge both things along at the same time but I suspect it will just end up being a nice incentive for those who are already going to buy (much like help to buy) anyway due to the lack of supply of the vehicles most in demand.
     
  14. jamoor

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jun 22, 2005

    Posts: 8,663

    Location: Nottinghamshire

    I wonder if people complaining about ChargePoints realise a lot of people have driveways and charge at home.
    It’s way better than stopping somewhere.
     
  15. Woden

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 7, 2011

    Posts: 6,750

    Location: Oldham, Lancashire

    Maybe I wasn't hinting well enough. There are 2 charging points (both at the same car park) almost on my way to work, but they are 7.2kw charging points. It would take far, far too long to get any meaningful charge. It just isn't viable until I can get a full battery almost as quickly as a full tank.

    A lot of people have a driveway but most people don't. Electric is the way forward, eventually we will all be electric. But it's a very long way off being good enough for the masses.
     
  16. jamoor

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jun 22, 2005

    Posts: 8,663

    Location: Nottinghamshire

    What percentage of homes don’t have off street parking?

    that aside even if a good percentage of people with off street parking can be converted then it’s still progress
     
  17. Orionaut

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Aug 2, 2012

    Posts: 7,815

    I am wondering how much additional underground infrastructure (Cabling, local substations, transformers and so on) are going to be required to enable every house in a street to be able to sustain multi-Kw loads simultaneously??

    Distribution capacity in the past was based on averaging between consumers, rather than large simultaneous loads.

    It must already be under considerable strain in some areas simply as a resuklt of backland developments.

    (EG, Where my parents used to live, many large 1920's plots have been subdivided for development and single houses have been replaced with multiple smaller ones and even flat complexes.

    And yet, I have not seen any new cabling put in the road or any new substations. All this must be running off a distribution network that hasn't been noticeably upgraded since the 1960's, possibly even the 1920's in places)
     
  18. Steeps

    Soldato

    Joined: Nov 8, 2003

    Posts: 5,125

    Location: Bedfordshire

    A 6k scrappage will end up hiking the list price of Ev's 4k due to "supply chain issues and raising costs due to the virus" and a 2k saving for the customer. This is probably why Nissan is keeping the UK plants open a little longer as they're potentially going to get a huge boost of taxpayer money disguised as a scrappage scheme.
     
  19. Orionaut

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Aug 2, 2012

    Posts: 7,815

    I get it too.

    It is also, as I said before, about helping the financial institutions by encouraging borrowing at a time when people might be otherwise reluctant to commit themselves to new debts.

    At the same time there are many that will see this, not unreasonably, as yet another green subsidy for the rich paid for by poorer people, few if any of which would ever be able to buy a New EV, Or even a new car of any flavour for that matter, regardless of how much subsidy is offered.

    Added to which, the scrapping of older, but perfectly serviceable, cars reduces the availability of cheaper second (Third, fourth etc) hand vehicles for those that cannot really afford anything newer.
     
  20. Joe T

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 1, 2003

    Posts: 11,526

    Location: Northampton

    Latest from the FT:

    [​IMG]

    Anyway, according to the SMMT webinar I attended yesterday, an EV only scheme was unlikely regardless. To boost the industry the scheme would need to cover ICE as well.

    Seems it's off the table for now, but you never know.