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Brexit Discussion - The new thread

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Feek, Sep 5, 2019.

  1. BowdonUK

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 2,730

    I'm not sure why you're talking about unicorns, or why you think the true scotsman theory is applicable in this situation. In your example then I've never thought the conservative party were "True Brexiteers". I don't think many Brexiteers do, this is why UKIP did very well in the Euros and now the Brexit party. The existance of those parties shows that people don't trust the Tories to deliver Brexit.

    So because you are replying to me I'll reply from my own experience. Though I voted for Brexit I never trusted the Tories to deliver it. I misguidedly thought that leaving the EU would make the British government actually have to take some responsibility for themselves now it wouldn't have someone else to blame. But since that vote I have realised that the government is acting so incompetent and we're probably better under some kind of control of the EU. As new information comes in and situations change then everyone is entitled to reassess and not be pig-headedly staying to their original opinion.
     
  2. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 9,314

    This lie again. There was the vid of Heath at the time saying it was more than a trade deal. Lets not let facts get in the way of Fail/Depress/BorisOGraph spin.
     
  3. banbom44

    Gangster

    Joined: Mar 28, 2018

    Posts: 217

    Boris wants a General Election so he can spin it on his terms he is banking on heavy leave areas like Sunderland and Middlesbrough voting for the Brexit party or the conservatives but I don't think they will people don't just vote on one thing in a General Election.
     
  4. inogen

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 19, 2009

    Posts: 3,695

    Boris wants an election because he thinks much of the traditional labour vote won't vote for Corbyn.
     
  5. robfosters

    Caporegime

    Joined: Dec 1, 2010

    Posts: 31,017

    Location: Welling, London

    There’s a feeling around that the government have lost.
     
  6. jonneymendoza

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 7, 2008

    Posts: 14,962

    border-line racism if you ask me!
     
  7. Irish_Tom

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 12,255

    I thought the exact opposite was true — generally, people become more conservative as they get older.

    This article suggests its slightly more nuanced, but the general trend appears to be a swing towards conservatism rather than liberalism as we age.
     
  8. TJM

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jun 10, 2007

    Posts: 2,268

    A disadvantage of the EU is that it takes on so much of the technical/non-glamorous policy making and we end up with ministers in many departments who can afford to be lazy as the nitty gritty will be dealt with by someone else. They also get to avoid ever having to make the case for something complex but worthwhile as they can say it's all Europe's fault despite their government shaping and supporting it behind closed doors.

    I don't see how this problem can be solved now as we'd have to give more responsibility to hacks who don't do detail until a better class of MP arrived, but if Brexit goes wrong then they may be replaced by something even worse (populists who practically brag about not being able to think through a problem or listen to others).

    Johnson will be disappointed if he hopes that 'Hard Brexit now!' will win a General Election. Aside from the fact that it would wipe out the Conservatives in Scotland, London, Cornwall, etc., and (as you say) people vote for many reasons, the general belief that solid Labour seats could flip because they voted for Brexit is a bit statistically illiterate. It's entirely possible - and probably the norm - to win a seat under FPTP with far less than a majority of the vote, so that a majority (which may mostly be made up of people who would never vote Labour) wants something doesn't mean they'll get an MP who agrees.
     
  9. Stretch

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 14, 2004

    Posts: 11,540

    Location: Cambridge

    Lost what?
     
  10. robfosters

    Caporegime

    Joined: Dec 1, 2010

    Posts: 31,017

    Location: Welling, London

    The court case
     
  11. 200sols

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 14, 2018

    Posts: 2,441

    Location: Hampshire

    The plot
     
  12. Greebo

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 20, 2005

    Posts: 32,198

    Location: Co Durham

    The will to live
     
  13. Vern1961

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 29, 2007

    Posts: 2,731

    Location: Swindon UK

    Source? All the BBC News reports is they have retired until next week and even if they do come down against the Government, BoJo will just press on regardless.
     
  14. Murphy

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 2,457

    The cake with cherries on it.
     
  15. inogen

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 19, 2009

    Posts: 3,695

    That's not his statement to the court said as read out in the summing up by Pannick.

    Looks like the court doesn't really want to deal with constitutional side of this, but expect the speaker to reconvene parliament immediately if they declare the prorogue unlawful, and they were being careful to pretty much ask if just declaring the prorogue unlawful would be enough for parliament to able to reconvene and take the matter out of their hands.

    Much of Pannicks summing up was them asking him if they had from everything from the appeal they needed to do this. The were going back to 18th century acts at one point.

    Johnson will look even more mental than he has this week if he doesn't turn up.

    Parliament will just have to turn the screw.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
  16. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 21,539

    Oh please, don't soften the blow just to surprise yourself later. It's really unlikely that the Supreme court will vote against the government.

    Of course there's a feeling around that the government has lost, because this government is lying to make it seem that way, they've already gotten the narrative ready.
     
  17. UTmaniac

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 9, 2005

    Posts: 4,986

    Location: Here

    The unicorns and rainbows. ;)
     
  18. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 21,539

    Anyone read the article from the Brexit Secretary to the EU... Basically admits that the UK never had or never plans to have a resolution to the Irish border, they need another year to resolve it, but they don't seem to want to go into the TWO year backstop to do so, how very revealingly ******.

    Of course he blamed the EU for it, as expected.
     
  19. BowdonUK

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 2,730

    Maybe I have to explain english to you. I wrote;

    I said "a form" meaning similar/version. Trade block means a treaty with a group of countries. Though google informs me I should have typed bloc instead of block.
     
  20. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 21,539

    The Telegragh is really ******* showing it's colours now.

    https://jewishnews.timesofisrael.co...ho-once-demanded-final-solution-for-refugees/