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Brexit Discussion - The new thread

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Feek, Sep 5, 2019.

  1. adidan

    Hitman

    Joined: Aug 26, 2018

    Posts: 614

    Location: Outside your house

    There was that. The remain campaign was terrible.

    There were also those who felt they didn't know enough to decide on such a big issue.

    There are also those UK citizens who aren't allowed to vote because they've lived abroad for fifteen or more years, you know taking advantage of freedom of movement.
     
  2. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 3,865

    At least now those remainers that didnt vote will get off their arses and vote this time. I dont even think remain needs to campaign at all this time round. Just show clips of all the brexit campaigners going back on their words time after time. Oh and all the charges brought against them.
     
  3. RedvGreen

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 2, 2009

    Posts: 3,907

    Location: Midlands

    Whilst just the facts and events of the past 3yrs should be evidence enough, this ‘project fear’ paranoia is a common phrase quick to be handed around when faced with evidence that threatens their belief system.

    If it were a few hundred years ago, the reaction would involve cries of ‘blasphemer’ Or ‘Witch!’ no doubt.
     
  4. Cern

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 3, 2008

    Posts: 3,460

    Location: London

    That's too complacent I'm afraid and risks repeating the mistakes of 2016. I don't think opinion has moved much since the referendum. Perhaps a little, but nowhere near as much as you'd expect given all that has unfolded.

    The case for Remain (or Revoke as it now is) needs to keep being put, with positive arguments made rather than just all the scary stuff. Not that much of the bad stuff isn't already coming to pass, but in many ways this might just lead to people hardening themselves to the consequences and saying "let's just get through this" as if there is somehow a sunny destination at the other end. Which of course there likely isn't.

    Remainers need to keep campaigning, keep persuading, keep getting the facts out there, keep things civil too. Plus also acknowledge that simply Remain is no longer enough. We can't just go back to how things were even if Brexit does get cancelled, there must now be significant change to tackle as many of the causes of Brexit as possible.
     
  5. inogen

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 19, 2009

    Posts: 3,720

    I'm sorry but appearing flanked by banks of uniforms saying "I'd rather be dead in a ditch" has somewhat jumped the shark.
     
  6. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 3,865

    Ooh do you think it was a reference to Dr Kelly?
     
  7. Caracus2k

    Soldato

    Joined: Jan 27, 2009

    Posts: 5,120

    FTFY

    Perhaps we can dig up Osbourne from under whatever rock he is hiding under to preface some official report on the matter with scaremongering about how the 'wrong' result will probably cause the sky to fall this time?

    We have now had three years of absolute treachery from many of our politicians...

    The EU elites most be laughing their ***es off.

    From remainer May who went to negotiate having already tied the UK hands behind its back to a significant tranche of politicians who have never had the slightest intention but to do everything they can to disrupt the whole process in an attempt overturn the referendum result.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
  8. inogen

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 19, 2009

    Posts: 3,720

    Tbh, I think it's a reference to all of us.

    I'd rather (you should/could) be dead in a ditch, than what I think might happen, but I've no intention of getting within miles of said ditch.

    The usual rallying cry.
     
  9. The_Abyss

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 15, 2007

    Posts: 11,996

    Location: Ipswich / Bodham

    He must be 'hiding' in plain sight then, as he publishes a newspaper and website every day that carries his views and opinion.
     
  10. Caracus2k

    Soldato

    Joined: Jan 27, 2009

    Posts: 5,120

    I was thinking more of a metaphor for his direct involvement in politics with the rock thing given his recent failure to progress in his bid to be the IMF chief.
     
  11. loftie

    Hitman

    Joined: Oct 17, 2009

    Posts: 847

    You forgot to mention WW3. ;)
     
  12. Murphy

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 3,068

    They probably won't as it will be seen as interfering in a nations domestic politics but it would be funny if they published it so everyone can see the sterling work Boris' administration has put into this 'new' deal.
    So if, as you seem to be implying, both sides misinformed the electorate we should have another referendum where people are well-informed, especially considering a well-informed electorate is a prerequisite of democracy, because if both sides lied the electorate were not well-informed and so the vote was not democratic.

    You see it is possible for both remain and leave supports to find common ground. :)
     
  13. Mr Badger

    Soldato

    Joined: Dec 27, 2009

    Posts: 6,618

    It does not work that way. Let's imagine that in 2016 you said that the EU was leaching off the UK and holding us back and we would be £350 Million per week better off by leaving and that German car manufacturers would guarantee that we would get a great trade deal with no downsides, that the NI border was not an issue and that the government information leaflet and the input from pretty much every acknowledged expert should be dismissed as project fear. Then after the referendum you said that we should just leave now and walk away and crashing out with no deal was fine, because it was all about UK parliamentary sovereignty and that you always knew there would be an economic hit because it said so in the leaflet that you dismissed as being project fear and you don't care about Northern Ireland. Then in 2019 you said that parliament should be overruled and denied the ability to exercise its sovereignty so a version of Brexit can be delivered that absolutely no one campaigned for. If you have gone that far down the Brexit rabbit hole, is there any chance you would be open to the sort of basic logical reasoning that you would agree that because you have said that the original vote was based on lies, it should not stand?
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2019
  14. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 43,992

    Well it seems the offer of a General Election is there if the opposition/remainers want it.
     
  15. garnett

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 25, 2008

    Posts: 5,255

    The only obstacle is that chunk of the electorate either too proud to admit a mistake, or, incredibly, still duped by the "Project Fear", "Take Back Control", "Stick it to the Elite" and other propoganda memes the Leave Campaign had Cambridge Analytica's help to use in targeting those they identified as cognatively vulnerable to it.

    That's the most depressing revelation about Brexit - how many Britons were mugged by these populists, and how many remain conned 3 years down the track.
     
  16. Thecaferacer

    Hitman

    Joined: Feb 3, 2019

    Posts: 747

    I would have thought Labour and the Lib Dems would lap it up. After all think of how many Brexit voters are now dead and how remain have categorically won every single argument around the EU and proved beyond any doubt what an amazing thing it is to be part of.

    It should be a cake walk for them.
     
  17. Kill_Phil

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 11, 2010

    Posts: 1,407

    Location: England

    @garnett throw in the incompetence of jezza and you've got a recipe for disaster for any GE.

    We just need to knock the whole brexit idea on the head. All of parliament should hang their heads in shame, complete shambles how they've handled the whole process.

    Bunch of liars on both sides
     
  18. wesimmo

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 19, 2012

    Posts: 2,695

    They're definitely worth years of financial upheaval. I can't wait until our politicians have full control, look how well they're doing at taking it back.
     
  19. garnett

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 25, 2008

    Posts: 5,255

    I agree about Corbyn. Although isn't it just that he's as political an animal as any other MP?

    I don't think we should dismiss all of Parliament though.

    There are plenty of MPs on all sides who are working hard and acting with integrity.
     
  20. jonneymendoza

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 7, 2008

    Posts: 15,136

    What would happen if we they did cancel brexit?