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Brexit Discussion - The new thread

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Feek, Sep 5, 2019.

  1. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 43,273

    No it isn’t actually, shortages have been an issue in various years and have previously been blamed on lack of work visas for non-EU workers as not enough UK and EU types will do the work. Perhaps that might have been helped somewhat by the likes of Romanians being able to work here from 2014 onwards but I don’t know if that is a benefit overall as having an open door to a country like that has some downsides too!
     
  2. chroniclard

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 23, 2014

    Posts: 13,435

    Location: Hertfordshire

    The sky is pink I tell thee!
     
  3. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 9,411

    Thanks for your posts. On the NQ nurses it just sounds like most NQ in a lot of fields. I was a teacher and I came across something similar with NQT's. NQ's need to learn and mostly are willing to learn from on the job experience. From my own experience it is not local management but central Govt that puts on extra paperwork. From the various cases that have come to court recently it would seem extra paperwork is more like bum covering by central Govt. I can have sympathy for NQ nurses when they have been told that legislation requires them to do this or that because not to do it put them at risk if something goes wrong and a lawyer asks why they did not do it the way they have been taught.
     
  4. malachi

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jun 27, 2006

    Posts: 9,404

    Location: Earth

    That's why I never became a police officer when I used to worked for them and one of my friends resigned after 2 years.

    So much paperwork which is duplicated is unbelievable.
     
  5. ubersonic

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 26, 2009

    Posts: 20,601

    So their plan is to give prospective NHS staff preferential immigration treatment.

    Shouldn't be very difficulty to achieve, considering it's been in place for decades xD
     
  6. neviditelny

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Oct 15, 2015

    Posts: 1,021

    The problem with NQ's from UK compared to non-UK NQ's is that the UK trained ones are lacking a lot in knowledge compared to the foreign staff. The foreign staff will generally struggle on the language as most countries are very heavy based on grammar and reading/writing in their English education and not to actually use it on a daily communicative basis. The foreign NQ's will have a much better medical/nursing understanding of their patient's though but will generally take a longer time to get used to all the paperwork/documentation side. The problem with the documentation is that it varies a lot from Trust to Trust. For example the admission books we need to fill in for each patient's admission is a minimum of 32 pages within medicine (slightly shorter within surgery). In the Trust 30 minutes away it's about half the size of ours. And yes, I can understand it from the legal side as well about them doing so much paperwork, but it will be just as bad if things happen and they have not actually dealt with a patient for more than the little time it takes them to give them some pills every now and then. I have nurses on my ward that unless they stand next to the patient at the patient's bedside wouldn't be able to point out who their patient would be....
     
  7. Btone

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 23, 2003

    Posts: 1,036

    Location: N.I.

    i sometime wonder if that how they sorted out the "lack off" employment problem we had. lets cause loads of paperwork then we have to employ loads of people to process it

    as i know in farming the amount of paperwork I've to do compared to my father is unbelievable
     
  8. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 43,273

    I think you're confused... it seems to be about Brexit supporting Tories trying to make immigration a bit more balanced for the rest of the world and based on need rather than prioritised massively in favour of predominantly white European countries.

    As I've said before, racists ought to be supporting remain!
     
  9. Evangelion

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 29, 2007

    Posts: 23,176

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    This is hilarious. Brexiteers voted Brexit in the misguided hope that this would reduce immigration, and now the Tories are committed to bringing in even more people.

    Good times!

    :D
     
  10. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 22,139

    Always what they voted for after all.
     
  11. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 43,273

    Prioritising immigration in certain areas and/or bringing in a points based system doesn't necessarily mean an overall increase in immigration vs open door to the EU and restrictions on rest of the world under EU membership.
     
  12. Evangelion

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 29, 2007

    Posts: 23,176

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    Vote for less immigration, get more immigration.

    It's almost as if Brexiteers don't understand the EU at all.
     
  13. Mr Badger

    Soldato

    Joined: Dec 27, 2009

    Posts: 6,554

    Nigel Farage gets to drown another puppy every time you come up with such complete tosh.

    The Tories are just making election promises that (yet again) they won't deliver and racists tend to not be particularly bright or logical, hence how they were duped into voting for Brexit.
     
  14. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 22,139

    It does if you look at Australia though (the supposed benchmark) and you know actually understand that we NEED it for further growth, regardless of skill level and it wouldn't look very good for a business orientated party harmed them by reducing their employment choices and ultimately their profits/ability to grow. This lack of growth means less work overall for everyone else because the demand reduces, supply has to drop and you can't really raise prices without annoying everyone.

    There is no way in any hell that a country with an aging population drops immigration figures in a major way, as it would be forced to mitigate the effects of spending on the elderly by one of two things, borrow more or cut spending elsewhere to pay for them.

    The former is unsustainable and the latter is now fundamentally toxic after the last 9 years, any further institutional pain on productive people forced to expend their own growth/prosperity on a enlarged productionless population is going to create even more bitter resentment, something that would undoubtedly mean a dead Tory party.

    So someone has to lose here, and it's going to be the bigots assuming the PM isn't actually dumb.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
  15. footman

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 21, 2002

    Posts: 3,845

    But that's fine as long as they don't stay, ever use the NHS, ever open a shop with funny writing, don't gabble on buses, never impede Farage on a motorway and don't live anywhere.
     
  16. jonneymendoza

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 7, 2008

    Posts: 15,032

    Lol
     
  17. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 43,273

    I'm glad you agree - remain is the "racist" option. I guess there are probably various smart racists who voted remain out there and smart non-racists who voted leave... :)
     
  18. Mr Badger

    Soldato

    Joined: Dec 27, 2009

    Posts: 6,554

    So it's just yet more Dowie trolling. You constantly cry about people not responding to what you actually wrote, yet you try to straw man arguments and make claims that are the complete opposite of reality and indeed the view actually expressed.

    Also, there are no smart racists.
     
  19. Greebo

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 20, 2005

    Posts: 32,315

    Location: Co Durham

    Except history has shown us that since the referendum net immigration from the rest of the world has rocketed (and we have control of that already) and the governments own forecasts shows net immigration rising to 300,000 per annum post Brexit with the point system and that the population of the Uk will increase by 3m over the next 10 years.

    So yes, any immigration policy may or may not increase or decrease the overall immigration but in this case Leave voters were sold a pup.
     
  20. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 43,273

    I dunno - there were plenty of scientists involved in eugenics... that's kind of like a no true scotsman argument.

    Anyway - you think racists were duped into voting for Brexit - I don't disagree with you, I'm just pointing out that remain is the option racists should have picked. Most racists these days probably are dumb, the smarter ones might well have voted remain.

    Were they - not all leave voters voted leave simply because of immigration. We haven't even left the EU yet - whether or not overall net immigration increases is to be seen not to mention that not all immigrants are equal a points based system is arguably preferential relative to the non-selective aspect of freedom of movement.