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Brexit Discussion - The new thread

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Feek, Sep 5, 2019.

  1. kindai

    Soldato

    Joined: Aug 9, 2013

    Posts: 6,664

    Location: Bromsgrove

    Why? I repeated it multiple times in this thread / the old thread that remainers needed to take the initiative and work out how to make brexit work more positively for them while respecting the result of the referendum, to have you, amongst others threw it back in my face and say you voted for it, you sort it.

    Well now, we (Boris) will, any chance you had to make a sensible influence is now gone.

    Good job :D
     
  2. Entai

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: Feb 28, 2004

    Posts: 72,321


    Snap .

    Where I live anything but a Conservative vote is completely and utterly wasted, as they increased their majority by almost four thousand, even though vote share went down almost 2 percentage points.

    Alistair Burt was our MP, but he did not stand this time.


    I voted remain, and was desperate for a 2nd referendum, but had zero way of saying that in this election that would in any way have been heard.

    North East Bedfordshire
    1. Conservative
      Richard Fuller
      • Votes:38,443
      • Vote share %:59.1
      • Vote share change:-1.8
    2. Labour
      Julian Vaughan
      • Votes:14,160
      • Vote share %:21.8
      • Vote share change:-6.7
    3. Liberal Democrat
      Daniel Norton
      • Votes:7,999
      • Vote share %:12.3
      • Vote share change:+6.6
    4. Independent
      Adam Zerny
      • Votes:2,525
      • Vote share %:3.9
      • Vote share change:+3.9
    5. Green
      Philippa Fleming
      • Votes:1,891
      • Vote share %:2.9
      • Vote share change:+1.0
     
  3. Entai

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: Feb 28, 2004

    Posts: 72,321


    The ONLY sensible influence was to remain.

    Or have the softest possible brexit that results in exactly the same as remaining.

    Nothing else is even remotely sensible in any way whatsoever.
     
  4. kindai

    Soldato

    Joined: Aug 9, 2013

    Posts: 6,664

    Location: Bromsgrove

    Oh well, too bad for you. Seems the message still hasnt hit home.
     
  5. FortuitousFluke

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 7, 2011

    Posts: 3,915

    Location: Cambridgeshire

    I hear an unspoken comment, nothing over the last few years has been logical so expect all hell to break loose.:D

    Sigh, some made the point that the referendum should have required a super majority yes, the main arguments however were:

    • the level of interference meant that the result was unsound, and;
    • When the result is so close, almost 50/50, the resulting agreement with the EU should be much softer than what we have been offered at various stages throughout the process to reflect that and to capture as much of the population as possible.
    My argument isn't that the 52/48 split should result in a 2nd ref or article 50 being revoked, it shouldn't. What I'm saying is that anybody trotting out the line that this is a resounding vindication of Bojo's Brexit deal, and that it proves that the will of the people is to leave the EU is a bare faced liar and they know it. Our GE voting system doesn't allow for that certainty. That's it.

    This vote absolutely decides whether or not we should push ahead with Brexit, the Tories were clear on their policy and we all know how the voting system works, what it doesn't do is prove is that there is public support for it. In summary:

    Should we have a Tory majority now? Yes
    Should the Tories be allowed/expected to enact their policies, including Brexit? Absolutely, yes.
    Does the result prove resounding support for Brexit throughout the UK? No

    That's it.

    On the point of what the campaigners and voters have been spamming on Facebook, this is exactly why I didn't want a GE before Brexit was decided, even if I supported Brexit I wouldn't have wanted it to go down that way if possible, because it means the decision we've made has been driven by a single policy. That's not good governance.
     
  6. Bounce

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Dec 22, 2011

    Posts: 1,334

    Location: Stoke-on-Trent

    OK thanks for reply, I can sleep safe tonight knowing that ;)
     
  7. troops

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jun 20, 2009

    Posts: 1,182

    Location: Pieland


    Just stay put in your pram, i will pick up your toys for you.
     
  8. Entai

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: Feb 28, 2004

    Posts: 72,321

    The message that the referendum was completely illegal, and only advisory in the first place.

    That every poll since early 2018 has had remain in front of leave.

    That even the percentage of the vote in the general election sways remain ahead of leave.

    Yep those messages are extremely clear, and have hit home very well thank you.
     
  9. Entai

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: Feb 28, 2004

    Posts: 72,321

    Cheers.

    Put them in your pockets and trundle happily over the cliff to doom with all the other lemmings lol

    I'll happily stay in my pram and emigrate thanks.
     
  10. kindai

    Soldato

    Joined: Aug 9, 2013

    Posts: 6,664

    Location: Bromsgrove

    When? I'll come see you off.
     
  11. Entai

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: Feb 28, 2004

    Posts: 72,321


    Need to decide if Germany or Italy but will be in next couple of months or so.
     
  12. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 45,995

    I think one good thing about having such a big majority is that it gives Boris plenty of flexibility, he's no longer held hostage as much by the ERG, he's got some "momentum" behind him and is very credible now as a world leader - you won't find them sneering at him so much now within the EU.

    This could lead to him being able to compromise or fudge short deadlines, get partial agreements made, explore softer options etc..
     
  13. Yozz76

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Aug 13, 2007

    Posts: 1,229

    Location: Wide Ness

    I've always been neutral on brexit, probably because I sense dangers associated with both nationalism and globalisation, it's a simplistic view - rightly or wrongly.

    Given that brexit has proven to be the decisive factor in determining the outcome of the GE, I want to make an effort to understand the benefits it will bring. What are brexiteers seeing / understanding that I haven't bothered to engage with?

    Can any of you provide me with a ray of sunshine on what has been a sad and confusing morning?
     
  14. JRS

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jun 6, 2004

    Posts: 14,745

    Location: Burton-on-Trent

    Let me save you the wait.

    Something something sovereignty something something immigration something something British jobs for British people something something fish something something trade deals with the Commonwealth.

    That's about all you'll get out of them. Individual soundbites, no subtance to hold them together. But, we shall see. Perhaps the Tory party will surprise us and come up with a vaguely workable plan that doesn't **** the country over.
     
  15. Caracus2k

    Soldato

    Joined: Jan 27, 2009

    Posts: 5,177

    Like polls pre the referendum almost always had remain ahead?

    Its funny to watch some some thrashing about in desperation clueless as to why they keep getting it wrong.

    I would wish your upcoming move turns out to be a better bet for you but i don't think you'll get that message (despite me not remembering you ever interacting with me on these forums... I may be wrong?)
     
  16. Sankari

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 29, 2007

    Posts: 24,325

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    Just gonna leave this here, to remind us all that both major parties went to the polls promising to deliver Brexit against the will of the people.

    [​IMG]

    (Source).
     
  17. Sankari

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 29, 2007

    Posts: 24,325

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    No they didn't. There was even a poll that had Leave leading by 17% or something equally crazy, just a couple of months before the referendum.
     
  18. Entai

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: Feb 28, 2004

    Posts: 72,321


    Before people actually realised what brexit really meant.

    Once they worked it out, anyone with any semblance of common sense, wanted to remain.
     
  19. kindai

    Soldato

    Joined: Aug 9, 2013

    Posts: 6,664

    Location: Bromsgrove

    Yet EVERYONE knew if you wanted to cancel Brexit you voted libdems.

    It hasnt happened has it? What does that say in actual terms compared to the polls?
     
  20. Entai

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: Feb 28, 2004

    Posts: 72,321


    Again anyone with any semblence of common sense knows a vote for the lib dems was a wasted vote in the current voting system.

    Had Labour changed their leader and their pledge, to a better one than Corbyn, and remain.

    It would have been a landslide to them.