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Brexit Discussion - The new thread

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Feek, Sep 5, 2019.

  1. GordyR

    Soldato

    Joined: Dec 1, 2003

    Posts: 5,300

    Location: Essex

    Kermit, you're engaging in some extremely bizarre mental gymnastics in your attempt justify an indefensible position.

    This is what sometimes happens when someone has a logical contradiction or inconsistency in their argument exposed; because it can feel uncomfortable.

    Some people find it easier to double down, then triple down, then quadruple down on their original fallacy, rather than reevaluate their conclusion or re-form their argument.

    In doing so they tend to resort to increasingly extreme and unusual methods in an attempt to justify their original, now demonstrated as broken, logic.

    This is what you're doing by flailing around discussing historical events as though they're somehow relevant to any of this, while completely hand-waving away the core of your broken reasoning.

    You'll notice that I'm not engaging with you from an actual debating point of view right now. The reason for that is because there is nothing left to debate on it; the principles of logic have been broken in your position; so it's no longer defensible.

    What you appear to be doing now is attempting to redefine reality and language, to suit your view, as opposed to adjusting your views to match the fact that your argument was trivially demonstrated to be logically contradictory.

    I'm sorry, but that's just the truth.

    You're right of course, but there's a part of me that is so incredibly taken aback at witnessing this kind of incredibly tenacious mental squirming first hand; that it's almost impressive to me; or at least interesting.
     
  2. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 4, 2007

    Posts: 10,262

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    I genuinely can't believe this thread has descended into arguing what words mean. I mean seriously?

    Dictionary definitions are meant for a layman, to get across in as few words as possible a very high level indication on something.
    The very fact that if you google most words you will find definitions that do not specifically agree tells you all you need to know.

    Of course it gets more difficult when you have words that take on differing meanings (to some extent) when used as for example a noun vs a verb.
    Nuance is everything

    This gets across the differences in usage, quite well

    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/forecast
     
  3. Greebo

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 20, 2005

    Posts: 33,895

    Location: Co Durham


    Your first proposition a) is incorrect so I didnt read the rest.
     
  4. Dj_Jestar

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 28,668

    Location: Back in East London

    It's really not.

    The evidence you can provide might be that the last time it rained, 24 hrs prior to it there was a spike in humidity, and we've just had a spike in humidity, therefore this is evidence of and increased likelihood of rain. We also note that that previous 12 times it has rained, 9 of them were preceded by a westerly wind. The wind is currently blowing south so that reduces the chance of rain and is evidence contrary to that above.
     
  5. Greebo

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 20, 2005

    Posts: 33,895

    Location: Co Durham

    No, its because he could only keep his job if he agreed to sacking all his staff and have them replaced by ones selected by Cummings. The coup is progressing nicely. Nice to see Sajid has come out and said all of BJ's crazy spending plans are unicorn dust.....:)
     
  6. garnett

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 25, 2008

    Posts: 5,808

    "NOT BREXIT" though...

    Uh huh.



    Swindon voted to Leave. Local press will no doubt carry reports of Brexiteers on the area volunteering to go to the back of the queue for new jobs.

    Expect those reports to come in any minute.

    Any time now.
     
  7. Steampunk

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 1, 2013

    Posts: 7,275

    Tenacious implies it's a good quality, where in this case it's actually the stupidity of the monkey that gets caught and eaten because it won't let go of the food in the jar that traps it. All the monkey has to do is open its fist and it can escape, but the monkey's thinking is so blinkered that it can't realise its predicament (or the danger it's in), right until it gets eaten. All the while the monkey is thinking "but I've got food in my hand!"
     
  8. Kermit

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 27, 2002

    Posts: 2,713

    Location: UK

    Its due to the non acceptance of some very basic things not that are not even specifically related to Brexit but key points in my arguments that need to be accepted before moving on.

    Do you accept for example, that the UK triggering A50 and Brexit itself 31/1/2020 has altered history?
    Do you also accept that if 52% had voted to remain, A50 would not have been triggered we'd still be in the EU which is an alternative history that is down to just a few % difference in the vote?

    Hopefully accept those premises or I'll just have to give up and not type anymore?
     
  9. Greebo

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 20, 2005

    Posts: 33,895

    Location: Co Durham

    Lol love the comment about the employees needn;t worry as there is an acute shortage of fruit pickers
     
  10. Kermit

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 27, 2002

    Posts: 2,713

    Location: UK

    Why is it incorrect?

    and not reading the rest pretty much confirms your not putting much effort into a very basic explanation that small things (A50 etc) alter the future. Its related to the butterfly effect which you could google
     
  11. Bonjour

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Mar 30, 2004

    Posts: 9,220

    Location: London

    The irony of the country essentially being run by an unelected civil servant as a direct result of Brexit...
     
  12. Greebo

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 20, 2005

    Posts: 33,895

    Location: Co Durham

    Will of the people. Its what they wanted. Who are we to argue?
     
  13. Murphy

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 3,383

    No it's not, i wouldn't personally use Cambridge but let's go with that, it defines it as "A statement" not as you say "a proposition" and a statement is simply something that someone says or writes officially, or an action done to express an opinion, not as you're saying an offer or suggestion, usually in business, either way that's rather unimportant and it's just my inner pedant coming out.

    What i would like to ask though, assuming we go with your statement that a forecast is a singular proposition, how do you think that singular proposition was reached, what or where are all the other propositions? Don't you have to have something to compare your singular proposition against so you know if what you're proposing is the most likely outcome, and if what you're proposing isn't the most likely proposition then you also must have compared it to something else to know it's not the most likely outcome, if you've not it's not a proposition, it's a possibility, just like the infinite number of other possibility, because it has no metric for how likely it is.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020
  14. Entai

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: Feb 28, 2004

    Posts: 72,321


    Maybe, maybe not.

    What it most defunitely is, is that it is Dominic Cummins related.

    Also just another pointer to Johnsons wish to be in total control, and only have yes people around him.

    One small word against him from anyone, and you are sacked.
    Anyone with their own voice or opinion is out of the door.
    Anyone gaining more popularity with the public than Bojo, is gone.

    If that is not a prelude to being a complete dictator, if only for the next 5 years, which is plenty of time to destroy this country, I'm not sure what is.
    ,
     
  15. Greebo

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 20, 2005

    Posts: 33,895

    Location: Co Durham

    Because most historians agree that it didnt. WW1 was going to happen anyway. All Ferdinand's death did was perhaps bring it forward a few months.

    (And I did read the rest of your post, but I was being flippant :p)
     
  16. Entai

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: Feb 28, 2004

    Posts: 72,321


    Do you accept that the referendum was illegal, and should have been nullified, and re-run or ignored and just kept the status quo at the time?
     
  17. JeditOjanen

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 7, 2011

    Posts: 4,828

    And it's a better analogy than you think. The most serious earth tremors in the UK were caused by fracking. So it's yet another situation where the problem people are worried about is actually the result of Tory policy.
     
  18. Kermit

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 27, 2002

    Posts: 2,713

    Location: UK

    No please just answer the question, we've done that to death, I'd like to have a fair chance of exlaining myself one step at a time but you've immediatly tried to wiggle out of answering which could well be delibrate to avoid enlightenment.
     
  19. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 4, 2007

    Posts: 10,262

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    Unless he repeals the FTPA then its not much over 4 years now before we would hit the election cycle
    The next UK election is scheduled for Thursday May 2nd :)
     
  20. Kermit

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 27, 2002

    Posts: 2,713

    Location: UK

    What, another avoidance of a very simple question? I get the feeling the entrenchment and avoidance you show explains why I'm wasting my time. I'm sure I could go on another forum and keeping off the actual Brexit topic, get some reasonable and sensible answers.