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Brexit Discussion - The new thread

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Feek, Sep 5, 2019.

  1. Azza

    Caporegime

    Joined: Dec 6, 2005

    Posts: 34,961

    Location: Birmingham

    Amusing looking at politwoops and all the Conservative MPs deleting tweets about how easy and great Brexit will be. :rolleyes:
     
  2. robfosters

    Caporegime

    Joined: Dec 1, 2010

    Posts: 32,978

    Location: Welling, London

    Well the EU army that Clegg scoffed at as a ‘dangerous fantasy’ seems on the brink of realisation.

     
  3. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 20,213


    Brexiteers - Easiest Trade deal in history
    Government - We'll walk away in 4 months if it's not going our way

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51650961
     
  4. Devilman

    Gangster

    Joined: Feb 9, 2004

    Posts: 344

    Remember when we had a Veto as one of the top members of the EU and could have used it to prevent such a thing from becoming a reality?

    Such a shame we threw it away for a bunch of snake oil.

    And now we sit in a position of not being able to prevent the very thing some people were banging on about.

    Irony has such a sense of timing :)
     
  5. robfosters

    Caporegime

    Joined: Dec 1, 2010

    Posts: 32,978

    Location: Welling, London

    Whataboutery.

    if you can accuse me of it in the past, I can accuse you of it now.

    fact is, leavers were right about the EU army.
     
  6. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 20,213

    I couldn't watch your video as I'm in the office.

    However, if the quote is as per the Twitter header "EU commission now has command and control of an EU Army"....where is this army?
     
  7. Devilman

    Gangster

    Joined: Feb 9, 2004

    Posts: 344


    Fact is, we could have prevented the creation of the EU Army indefinitely as a top member of the EU with our special deal and our VETO.

    Fact is, leavers have created the very situation in which the creation of something they do not want is now entirely out of their control.

    Well done, Brexiteers.. Is this what #winning looks like?
     
  8. Freakbro

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 29, 2010

    Posts: 16,352

    Location: Lincs

    What the leavers were saying is that an EU army would supercede national armies and countries wouldn't be allowed their own yadda yadda yadda, which was and still is bollox

    it was even discussed at the time that the EU having a rapid reactionary force made up of the 28 nations would be a good thing, especially since with Trumplethinskin in charge we can't depend on NATO being as effective as it has before.

    Anyway, reading the rest of his twitter thread, I see he is a typical Brexiteer nob being disingenuous and peddling fear and lies.

    Look at this little doozy



    So the EU army is going to made up of Syrian refugees they 'shipped in' :D :D :D
     
  9. sigma

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 13, 2006

    Posts: 17,153

    Are we leaving NATO then?
     
  10. sigma

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 13, 2006

    Posts: 17,153

    Doubt you'll get a reply to this because... well, what can you say?

    Just ignore and move on to posts where you can reply... business as usual.
     
  11. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 45,938

    Well here is a reply:

    That bit is dubious - do leavers who were bothered about an "EU army" when the UK was a member necessarily care much either way re: whether or not the EU has an EU army when the UK is no longer a part of the EU?

    Someone not wanting an EU army (when the UK is a part of the EU) isn't the same as not wanting the rest of the EU to have one or reflect any desire to want to control whether they do or not. I'd suspect that most people don't care either way whether the current EU members want to club together etc... they're our allies regardless - if they think it is useful for them to do so (given some have relatively small militaries and the US under Trump is getting a bit funny re: their commitments) then crack on.
     
  12. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 4, 2007

    Posts: 10,239

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    I still dont see the issue with this, it still sounds like a really sensible thing to do.
     
  13. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 45,938

    Key words you're missing to put it into context: "should be"

    Not "will be", especially given the EU's current cake and eat it approach in spite of the UK being fairly clear re: the level of relationship they'd like to aim for.
     
  14. chroniclard

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 23, 2014

    Posts: 14,760

    Location: Hertfordshire

    Also dont see the issue. Just another case of Project Froth with their non issues.
     
  15. Murphy

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 3,368

    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you don't know what she's talking about do you.
    Leavers seem to have a very strange definition of what an army is.
    While that's true we didn't veto the creation of the CFSP, CSDP, and PESCO: They're essentially what robfosters is calling an EU army and the first two have been a thing since the 1950's and the last one has been a thing for over a decade so they had the full support of the UK.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2020
  16. Greebo

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 20, 2005

    Posts: 33,861

    Location: Co Durham

    Not so sure. Having farms removed when we should be aiming to become more self sufficient doesnt seem like a good idea to me.

    I presume that if a farmer takes the 7 years up front to retire then his farm will cease to be a farm as anybody buying it wont be able to claim any CAP on it for 7 years so it probably wouldnt be viable as a farm anymore.
     
  17. garnett

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 25, 2008

    Posts: 5,789

    Not really though, eh?

    "EU Army" isn't really something you can be right about - it's 2 words.

    Flesh out the details of the claim you believe was made about this by Brexiteers - at a bare minimum, tell us what were they scared about and why that fear was valid - and then it can be determined whether the claim was right.

    How will any EU army be more scary to Brexiteers than UN or NATO equivalents?
     
  18. Greebo

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 20, 2005

    Posts: 33,861

    Location: Co Durham

    It is and our Govt has stated that even after Brexit they want to be part of this "EU Army" as they think its a good idea too.
     
  19. RxR

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Aug 16, 2019

    Posts: 1,278

    Greebo, I was praising the forward-value assignment aspect of it as an indicator of flexible economic reasoning at the source.

    In practice, clearly it isn't useful to render real productive agricultural land unviable. The policy / program details may provide a production or value protection clause for the new owner.
     
  20. Irish_Tom

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 12,446