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Brexit Discussion - The new thread

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Feek, Sep 5, 2019.

  1. do_ron_ron

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 10,088

    Heard on the TV from BoJo

    "I have been saying for weeks that testing is vital"

    Has this man no shame.
     
  2. Mr Badger

    Soldato

    Joined: Dec 27, 2009

    Posts: 7,389

    The evidence would suggest that it is unlikely he even understands the concept of shame.
     
  3. simpletom

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 3, 2009

    Posts: 1,650

    No, he is filth. A lying, filthy rat. His colleagues are little different, with that dirty vermin Hancock adding dim into the equation.

    I have never, in my concious life, felt so underwhelmed by such a bunch of chancers and bandits that with this government.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2020
  4. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 4,779

    Just you wait. There is so much more to come.
     
  5. garnett

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 25, 2008

    Posts: 6,341

    Now steady on, Hancock's not that dim and callous...


    Oh, my bad. As you were.
     
  6. simpletom

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 3, 2009

    Posts: 1,650

    He is a disgusting little cockroach. And thick. Really, really thick.
     
  7. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 68,468

    Sadly there are still a lot of people rallying around Boris often in the name of patriotism :( too many who are swayed by the government saying something often enough and loud enough that they believe it as the truth :(
     
  8. datalol-jack

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 1, 2010

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    In fairness to Hancock, he's a humanities and economics graduate with a significant chunk of his career spent in politics. What did anyone expect? Practical competence?

    He's no better or worse equipped for his position in this crisis than the majority of non-clinicians in the NHS. It's easy to appear thick when you are an ill fit for your role. Like the majority of the current cabinet, he was picked for his chair on sticking to the party line, behind Boris, more than expertise. The stupidity of using the cabinet posts in a reward hierarchy for ambitions politicians doesn't help.

    No excuse for the lack of care or common sense enough to know when to shut up, though. It's little surprise they are bringing their campaign comms experts back into the fold outside an election. The messaging has been all over the place to the detriment of everyone.
     
  9. garnett

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 25, 2008

    Posts: 6,341

    Quite. When all the usual criteria for ministerial appointments get bumped down a place and "enthusiasm for nation-harming Brexit" goes straight to the top, the result is cretins like Hancock.

    Everyone who voted for the Brexit-Squad is culpable.

    And the messaging is interesting. It's the same team that were lauded for the Leave messages.

    It seems it may be easier to peddle lies than to convey uncomfortable truths. Who'd have thought?
     
  10. datalol-jack

    Soldato

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    Unlike with Brexit though, hunkering down behind a wall of one-liners and weak conspiracies cannot even masquerade as a solution. Public health cuts across all lines in society. Fundamentally, nature doesn't care what ******** helps you sleep at night. Boris and co are no doubt trying their best, but he's a bluffer by vocation. Dealing with crises is not his strong suit. He's now a hostage to circumstances just like anyone else.

    The government finds itself in an uncomfortable position of listening to experts, after pouring dirt over them for years, and either wiping out the economy or selling to the nation that thousands of very visible deaths are acceptable to keep a reasonable quality of life for the majority. The latter is on the horizon for this summer.

    The messaging work there is in the main to ensure at least the official advice is followed and people respect the lockdown for it to have an impact. Officials contradicting themselves, confusing exceptions on side cases nobody thought of and a slew of gaffes just discredit anything serious they have to relay. But this is a very limited strategy in itself because it does not address the problems at hand: the disease; accumulating economic impact; Brexit deadlines. Cake and eat it won't work.
     
  11. Murphy

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

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    That sounds like you're saying we should put people who know what they're doing in charge instead of elected officials, we'll have none of that in post Brexit Britain. :D
     
  12. datalol-jack

    Soldato

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    Maybe not, but it would help if the leader of a particular branch of government was elected there with some domain expertise they are meant to manage. The SPADs and civil service are meant to provide this know-how, but if the former are much the same as the PPE grad they are helping, and the latter is savaged for political reasons in the former's favour, well it's a gamble at best. Some people will drop the nonsense and rise to the occasion; others will collapse. We could do without the collapsing bit really.
     
  13. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 4,779

    Yes we certainly could have done with that over the last 9 years but sadly even when they have been forced to resign due to doing something dodgy they still get brought back in. The sad thing is all those that seem like that might rise to the occasion dont have the backing of the barking dogs so we just get idiots taking control.
     
  14. datalol-jack

    Soldato

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    During the ordinary political cycle it will wash, so it will be done. The unity of the party line is more important. The SNP and Tory cohorts are good examples of what can be achieved by deciding on a message, quashing internal opposition quickly and pushing ahead regardless of perceived faults with a small, protected vertical power structure.

    The electioneering approach is futile to actually do something with the power you got, though. Hence I wouldn't be surprised if either the headbangers got quietly dropped or got babysitters who can do their job for them in the coming months. One of Boris's few virtues as a political animal is to sense his own mortality and do somersaults to stay in the role he fashioned for himself - a Churchillian figure, according to his supporters. He likes to be in power. The attention that comes with it drives his ego. He won't just let a few bootlicks screw it up for him now. After the worst is over, he can draft in whoever he likes again in a reshuffle to address the fashionable prejudices and preoccupations of the times. The reformed opposition has to keep them to account throughout, or the government will just revert to type in a couple of years.
     
  15. Panos

    Perma Banned

    Joined: Nov 22, 2009

    Posts: 13,200

    Location: Under the hot sun.

    The Spanish PM wrote this today on the Guardian. And mind you, he and his party are Euro-phile yet they see the destruction of EU if (Germany) continues down on the same path.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/c...e-is-at-stake-in-this-war-against-coronavirus

    FYI the German insistance to use the ESM means strict austerity with a budget commanded by the ESM (aka Germany). Under ESM rules Greece got the loans to save it's banks and the country had to sell everything (even very profitable government owned corporations) not to pay it's debt but as a requirement for the loans. In the list included gifting the banks the tax payers put billions in them also!!!!!

    Stark contrast of what UK did and survived the 2008 crisis.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
  16. StriderX

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 25,384

    You realise the UK is leaving right? This isn't relevant to us anymore, especially so if the EU is gone.

    Have fun with your bank crisis and localised depression though, if you want the EU to fail so bad, I wish you luck.
     
  17. Murphy

    Mobster

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    It's amazing how different people can takeaway very different things from the same article, having read that i did not come away thinking it was an article about the destruction of EU if (Germany) continues down on the same path, it doesn't even mention Germany to start with and it seems to be calling for greater unity (solidarity), the complete opposite of destruction.
     
  18. Panos

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    You need to put into the picture the ongoing rhetoric and news between Spain/France/Italy & EU (mostly Netherlands & Germany).
    The insistance of those two later countries to everyone who needs money go through ESM, throwing a fit at every other country across the EU because of what this entails.

    I know the average British citizen EU is the great unknown and the media never inform of whats going on. But people need to stop on strict "what article says" and start putting pieces together from the ongoing news of multiple articles about this matter of the last few weeks.
     
  19. Murphy

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    The thing is one person putting together the pieces together will probably have a different view from another, normally based on their own preconceptions, AKA confirmation bias, that applies to both Eurosceptic and Europhiles alike.

    Personally i think prophecies of the EU's doom are pretty much always wishful thinking, people have been saying it for almost all of the 60 years that the EU, in one shape or form, has existed and it's not come true yet. The EU will do what it's always done, serve the needs of its members and change accordingly, it's done so since its inception and i dare say it will continue to do so.
     
  20. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 16,502

    The EU hasn't existed for 60 years though. It started as just a trade block (which we voted to join). But then 40 years ago decided it wanted to be a super-state and we got joined via the back door.