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Brexit Discussion - The new thread

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Feek, Sep 5, 2019.

  1. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 67,950

    So there wasn't a referendum in 1975 to decide if we would continue to stay with the EU with this change?
     
  2. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 16,173

    That was a vote to remain in the EEA. It was a bait and switch. The only real vote we've had on the EU was in 2016.
     
  3. chroniclard

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 23, 2014

    Posts: 15,632

    Location: Hertfordshire

    I worry about you, do you need some professional help with your condition?
     
  4. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 24,920

    The UK is the one that principally decided that the EU was to be a 'super-state', it's not anyone else's fault for people not paying attention. Though the fact is, that as long as member states have supremacy, it can never be described as a super-state, it's such a fallacy and this crisis has proven that several fold.

    The Single Market was the UK's idea, the security cooperation was the UK's idea, the military cooperation was the UK's idea, the UK was the most ambitious supporter of expanding the EU, the UK was the principle component behind the ECHR, the UK was pushing the most for more centralisation.

    It's a joke to pretend that we weren't, the proof is written all over the documents the EU functions on, this is just the classic revisioning to create a narrative to suit a history that didn't happen.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
  5. datalol-jack

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 1, 2010

    Posts: 6,239

    There's no market without infrastructure, political or otherwise. If you want the former, you will get the latter developed. It's a crank argument to paint this as a conspiracy.
     
  6. Murphy

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 3,822

    Reading skills letting you down?
    And every general election since we joined, or are you saying you couldn't vote for parties who were Eurosceptic? Just because you may not have gotten the result you wanted doesn't mean you were not given a choice.

    And that's not to mention the 40 years of European elections.
     
  7. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 16,173

    No one gives a **** about EU elections or politics in the UK. No one spoke about it and it didn't matter to anyone. Until we got the option to leave, then we left.
     
  8. Mr Jack

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 19, 2004

    Posts: 18,533

    Location: Nordfriesland, Germany

    If only we could find out what the British people were told about the block they were joining:

    [​IMG]

    Oh.
     
  9. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 16,173

    I guess most people didn't know what they were voting for...

    Isn't that the fashionable argument for why people voted leave? ;)
     
  10. Murphy

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 3,822

    So precisely as i said then, it wasn't that you didn't have a choice it's that you didn't care to make it.
    But they did know what they were voting for in the preceding 40+ years it's just like you said though, they didn't give a ****.
     
  11. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 9,997

    No it did not. This is just another Mail/Express/Borisgraph canard. There was a prog about the formation of the EU a couple of months back and they showed the original treaty of the European Steel and Coal Community. One of the Articles of the Treaty stated that they would work towards a Federal Europe. It was never just a trading block.
     
  12. garnett

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 25, 2008

    Posts: 6,156

    Pfffft! "Bait and switch"?

    "Nobody is talking about leaving the Single Market"

    "Brexit will ge the easiest deal in history"

    "Brexit will save us £350m we can give to the NHS instead"

    "Brexit will have no downsides, only upsides"


    The only Bait and Switch was the one you can't bring yourself to admit you got thoroughly conned with.

    :)

    "This **** sandwich is exactly what I ordered, and I'm really enjoying every mouthful."

    :D
     
  13. Murphy

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 3,822

    At least with this whole COVID thing going on nobody has noticed that we've only got, what, 3 months left before the window closes for an extension. I expect we'll start hearing about how well the future partnership talks are going so there's no need to request another extension...what's that you say, they're not going well?
    So almost a month after the second round was meant to have taken place they've still not managed to setup a video conference.
     
  14. Greebo

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 20, 2005

    Posts: 34,556

    Location: Co Durham

    The ones in Government are just letting to clock run down while people are distracted. COVID-19 is the gift which keeps on giving for them. Nobody will even notice the affect of crashing out of the EU with no deal at the end of the year.

    And when people try and point out how much additional damage to GDP that has done, it will all be put down to the COVID-19.
     
  15. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 46,832

    Well tbh... Covid19 is a complete game changer and eclipses any Brexit related stuff by far. In fact I’m really on the fence at the mo re: extensions etc... it’s going to be down to the wire by mid year deadline, don’t think they’re going to rule out extensions given current issues (would be reckless to state right now no extension IMO) but will probs be at last minute/11th hour decision (or really “6th hour” given the deadline).

    Competing national interests over medical supplies (possibly food in future too), big disruption to trade etc... potential massive **** show with Italy etc... I mean financial stability of those places was one of my worries initially but more of a long term thing and with background of ticking time bomb re: youth unemployment etc... this thing has accelerated the debt issues and internal conflicts on how to deal with them. There is something to be said re: having flexibility re: imports in the near future too. It isn’t like exit now means no deal ever either - pretty apparent that some trade deal will be struck - can potentially do that from outside transition too or bit by bit etc... this stuff isn’t necessarily set in stone anymore as the whole game has now changed. I’m not sure the EU could necessarily demand any future trade talks in event of no deal would just start from same place and with same conditions on regulatory alignment etc... a lot of that will depend on how well countries get through this and how much of a bun fight there is internally too. Lots of possibilities at the moment - even stuff that was previously just Brexit party nonsense like other countries potentially leaving. I don’t think it’s the likely event at the mo as the idea of it might well focus minds and bring about a solution but it’s certainly a possibility for Italy now.
     
  16. Greebo

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 20, 2005

    Posts: 34,556

    Location: Co Durham

    Yeah going to be a different world. If Hancock gets his way we could have 10 million unemployed here - 25%.
     
  17. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 24,920

    Honestly wouldn't put it past Raab to offer up the extension, take the blame and the PM can get away with the optics.

    Would be rather convenient though.
     
  18. Mr Jack

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 19, 2004

    Posts: 18,533

    Location: Nordfriesland, Germany

    No, Raab's far more one of the Brexit faithful than Boris; he won't do it.
     
  19. Greebo

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 20, 2005

    Posts: 34,556

    Location: Co Durham

    Raab is one of the hardcore Brexiteers who want removal of the right for employees to take their employer to tribunals, no minimum wage for the under 21s, employers can force employees to work more than 48 hours per week etc

    No way will he want an extension. In fact a no deal crash out suits his beliefs.
     
  20. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 9,997

    He might get away with doing this after the virus which is set to have a huge hit on the economy, never mind Brexit. It will be "we have to introduce these measures to make ourselves competative after the damage of the virus".