1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Brexit Discussion

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by FrenchTart, Sep 11, 2016.

  1. pmc25

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Nov 24, 2010

    Posts: 1,895

    I've been to all the countries / areas you've listed.

    Have you?
     
  2. doodah

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 17,724

    Location: London

    I know there is still time/not confirmed yet but already rumours are May is backtracking on the concession. If true, how could the 'rebels' be so shortsighted that they didn't think someone like May would double cross them at the first instance.

    Reminds me of Susan Collins (a supposedly moderate Republican) voting for Trump's tax bill. Her constituents made it clear what they wanted, she received a promise from Mitch McConnell he would give her a chance to propose her amendments a few months after (for her vote). Guess what happened....
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  3. do_ron_ron

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 6,887

    This has been the Tory tactic all the time. 'kick the can down the road', and bother about it later. Trouble is that the road is ending and that tactic will not work for very much longer and then we will see if MPs have any backbone or they will just put party before country.
     
  4. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 14,580

    It's because they are quite literally disgusting individuals who actually couldn't give a **** about their constituents. If ISIS and the Syrian "moderates" could ever be used in a situation to describe a similar set of optics, this is a pretty good time.

    These moderates are no better than those they appease, the bigots, racists, fascists, islamophobes, anti-semites, liars, degenerates, fraudsters, traitors and Gammon-faced hucksters.
     
  5. Stretch

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 14, 2004

    Posts: 10,533

    Location: Cambridge

    What's the alternative. The party couldn't be more divided. If they can't agree, there is no chance of negotiating a deal or getting it through Parliament.

    Ms May is trying to edge this forward an inch at a time, giving both sides enough hope that they are prepared to give it a bit more time.

    However, it's clear now that ends will never meet. One side is clearly going to get stiffed, and only the remain side has the numbers in parliament to ensure it's not them.

    The only thing that can save Brexit now an offer from the EU which is too good to be true. It's not happening.

    We are now faced with a clear choice. A Brexit that nobody wants, a no deal Brexit that will not get through parliament, or we stay in the EU.
     
  6. NZXT30

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Aug 3, 2010

    Posts: 1,693

    I doubt getting wasted and embarrassing yourself in those countries like a true brit gives you the right to talk about matters you do not understand.
    That is true unfortunately. Still FYROM's claims are such a joke that its actually sad, we shouldn't rewrite history just so some homeless slavs can feel better about themselves.
     
  7. Panos

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Nov 22, 2009

    Posts: 8,504

    Location: NE Lincolnshire

    I was born in Thessaloniki, is that sufficient answer?
     
  8. Panos

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Nov 22, 2009

    Posts: 8,504

    Location: NE Lincolnshire

    :D
    Thanks.

    Unfortunately everything was escalated from the similarities about the Parliamentary democracy at this moment between May and Tsipras :/
    Both trying to dodge around the system for their own agendas.
     
  9. JeditOjanen

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 7, 2011

    Posts: 3,523

    Yes, I already did. Expressing a wish that someone would kill themselves is reprehensible, but it's far less serious than actively pushing a man with a mental illness into fatal self-harm. Anyone who would say otherwise is vermin.
     
  10. TJM

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jun 10, 2007

    Posts: 2,019

    The 'rebels' aren't in the same position as the Bill will be coming back to the Commons after the Lords has made further amendments, which it definitely will, so they can retaliate if May doesn't follow through.
     
  11. Herojuana

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Nov 24, 2007

    Posts: 1,210

    Location: Lancashire

    Today, Verhofstatd goes on a manic rant for the need for a more 'perfect union' including a 'defence' force.

    Wants to get rid of the 'Unanimity rule'

    The term ‘unanimity’ relates to the requirement for all EU countries when meeting within the Council to be in agreement before a proposal can be adopted.

    Nevertheless, a limited number of policies judged to be sensitive remain subject to unanimity voting: taxation, social security or social protection, the accession of new countries to the EU, foreign and common defence policy and operational police cooperation between EU countries.

    Suggests there is a fifth column enemy within the EU 'family' - basically all those who are critical of the EU and who wish to retain nationhood are funded by the Kremlin

    In short - pushing for greater EU influence over nation state, the need for a defence force and also aligning people who are critical of the EU as being in bed with a foreign power.

     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  12. do_ron_ron

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 6,887

    Verhofstadt can say what he likes because the power is not in his hands but in the hands of the leaders of the democratically elected Govts. Just like in the past Juncker has talked about a European Army etc but nothing has come about it because countries do not want it. You make it sound like the EU is some sort of supra-national body controlling the countries rather than countries which agree areas or get vetos if they do not.
     
  13. Gigabit

    Mobster

    Joined: Apr 9, 2012

    Posts: 11,150

    Jesus Christ, Verhofstatd is one guy. The majority of MEPs and Member States have already said they would not vote for this. Unlike the UK Parliament, the EU cannot just do what it wants. Christ, how many times?
     
  14. Amp34

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jul 25, 2005

    Posts: 28,250

    Location: Canada

    It's also ignoring the fact that Macedonia is considered a transnational region by many, and the FYROM has been on and off part of that region for the last couple of millennia.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_(region)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_(terminology)#Ancient_Macedonia

    So it's more akin to a country where Scotland (or Wales is) deciding to call itself "Britain" and the UK taking offense.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  15. Mulder

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 10, 2004

    Posts: 3,792

    Location: London

    This could be a pro-membership advert back in the 1975 referendum..... "It's just about the common market and trade...Christ, how many times?"

    Aaaaand then we had common commercial policy, common justice and home affairs, economic and monetary union, common social policy, common energy policy, common security policy, common civil protection etc. All gradually introduced with each new Treaty.

    But don't let history mean anything. The gradual progression toward a United States of Europe I'm sure has stopped now. Oh wait, that's utter rubbish.
     
  16. Herojuana

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Nov 24, 2007

    Posts: 1,210

    Location: Lancashire

    This is the goal of the key players and they are in the position to make it happen. It will require a crisis though, real or manufactured.

    What is your opinion of what he's saying? I'm taking it that you don't like his vision for the EU as you are pointing to the safeguards
     
  17. pmc25

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Nov 24, 2010

    Posts: 1,895

    LOL. Albania and Macedonia are really on the average lager lout's bucket list, right?

    I'll take that as a no, then, given that you avoided answering the question.

    Also, not exactly that many Greeks who travel to Macedonia or Turkey, let alone Albania.
     
  18. Nasher

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 9,219

    Whatever actually happens. That guy is a vicious little **** when he doesn't get his own way.
     
  19. Cern

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 3, 2008

    Posts: 2,528

    Location: London

    Verhofstatd is not saying that everyone who is concerned about national sovereignty is funded by the Kremlin, just that there appears to be a fifth column of far right activists and agitators who would seem to be connected to the Kremlin in some way. He specifically mentions Arron Banks and Nigel Farage, which I don't think is particularly controversial given what has come to light since the referendum.

    Personally I don't see it as a manic rant, it's more a passionate call for unity in the face of forces that would seek to break up the EU. Brexit is one of those forces, many Brexiters have not been shy in coming forward with their views that the UK leaving the EU is not enough for them, they would like to see the EU project fail and the EU break up. So it's not unexpected that the EU might seek to stick closer together at such a time. But Verhofstatd is just one voice and he's always held strong views on greater EU integration that aren't necessarily that widely shared, particularly among national government leaders.

    As for of Arron Banks, it seems he doesn't like the heat being on him and is running for the hills like so many of the Brexiters:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...nks-may-leave-politics-says-brexit-is-tedious
    Arron Banks says Brexit is exhausting and may leave politics

    So, he's stirred up a total #@*! storm and now it's not going well he finds it "exhausting" and "tedious". How very typical of a Brexiter to not have the spine, courage, honour and vision to see through what he has started.
     
  20. Panos

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Nov 22, 2009

    Posts: 8,504

    Location: NE Lincolnshire

    That alone shows how crap your knowledge is about that area and the people.

    First of all there is no such country as Macedonia. There is only FYROM, their full temp legal name as recognised by the UN. This country didn't existed when I was born 43 years ago, and only popped on the map near Greece in 1992.

    FYROM has the best casinos, made by greek businesses and away from the greek law and taxation, since the mid 90s.
    Same applies to almost all businesses in the country are of greek interests as is great tax haven. (Bulgaria is better right now as is in EU for tax heaven purposes).

    And yes with our bikes for more than 10 years, we were going around the Balkans for a long weekends and that was happening often, more than 5 times per year. Ofc been in Britain now it only happens once per year now, when we gather up all old friends doing the trip. And yes with the bikes many times we started for Zagreb and end up in Munich or Berlin. One of the benefits to be in mainland Europe :)

    During 1999-2001 every weekend was off to Belgrade with the bike because I had a girlfriend there and we used to go around especially Montenegro.
    And no the UK-US bombing didn't help that much the area which is very beautiful and if I had the money could retire there.

    And yes we go to Turkey not for holidays is kinda daft, but many times went there for trips to Constantinople, Ephesus and especially Pontus where my family is from as genocide refugees, and is the annual pilgrimage to the Soumela monastery. (half the Greeks in Greek Macedonia are that genocide refugees decedents).

    Albania nobody is that crazy to go there, same applies to Kosovo. I feel much safer in Diyarbakir than just 1 mile near the Greek - Albania border. Let alone to the other side.