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Brexit Discussion

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by FrenchTart, Sep 11, 2016.

  1. do_ron_ron

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 7,032

    Eliminating tariffs? How is farming in this country going to compete or manufacturing, apart from specialised products? Even the Brexiteers favourite economist said this would haoppen.
     
  2. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 35,648

    Said what would happen? And not necessarily all tariffs... but rather the point is the direct would seem to be the opposite to that which has been suggested.
     
  3. Cern

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 3, 2008

    Posts: 2,580

    Location: London

    It means being ruled by these paragons of diversity and equality:

    [​IMG]
     
  4. do_ron_ron

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 7,032

    Greece was given a huge hand by the EU. It forced creditors to 'take a hair cut' as far as Greek debt was concerned. Greece's problems were up to Greek economics not the EU. Being in the single currency they could not devalue their currency as they had done for decades. Instead of trying sensible reform they continued with the same old failed economic model.

    The refugee crisis was not something the EU caused. The people were coming to Europe. What do you do? Block all the broders? They pushed through or went round to easier places. It was also mainly a one year peak event. Merkel was faced with people approaching their border and tried to do something for the people which in my opinion was good. It was bound to cause problems but when faced with the situation she acted in a humanitarian way, unlike Trump.
     
  5. do_ron_ron

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 7,032

    That farming would be eliminated and a lot of manufacturing would cease as they would not be able to compete. It has already been covered in this thread several times.
     
  6. Mr Jack

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 19, 2004

    Posts: 15,766

    Location: Kiel, Germany

    How does eliminating tariffs, thereby destroying almost entirely our negotiating hand, make new trade deals? How does it help the UK trade globally, for that matter?
     
  7. Steampunk

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 1, 2013

    Posts: 5,318

    And they decided that the UK farming industry should be allowed to die in favour of cheap, poor quality imports from the US and elsewhere. Just like coal mining, steel industry, etc.
     
  8. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 35,648

    Not all tariffs per say, the point is that the direction is the opposite to that implied by the other poster.
     
  9. Mr Jack

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 19, 2004

    Posts: 15,766

    Location: Kiel, Germany

    Okay, how does lowering tariffs help?

    The fact is, that in contrast to the blithering nonsense from the Brexiteers, tariffs will go up all over the place because any other option is huge disaster for the UK.
     
  10. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 35,648

    With regards to trade deals, it doesn't necessarily, that wasn't the point being made. It doesn't necessarily hinder them either, there are still issues other than tariffs to discuss etc.. Regardless this is going off on a tangent from the point actually being made/discussed previously.

    Really - how can you be sure of that? Who is proposing it?
     
  11. do_ron_ron

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 7,032

    Except worsening Balance of Payments requiring more borrowing. Too many landed Tories still, even Boris.
     
  12. Sheff

    Hitman

    Joined: Jun 16, 2008

    Posts: 875

    Location: Newton Abbot

    I'm talking about perception of their handling here in reference to the viewed inaction of the EU over Russia (how the sanctions in place aren't very well regarded by the public) rather than blaming the EU over these events.
     
  13. do_ron_ron

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 7,032

    Problem is the EU requires Russian gas via the pipeline. The UK can mouth of because it is not connected to this pipeline but Germany etc are and winters are upon us. It is also never good to isolate a country, Churchill's 'jaw, jaw.........'
     
  14. BowdonUK

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 1,129

    You make a good point about buying cheap products from other countries sent our own industries out of business.

    But the same can be said for importing cheap labour, lowering the wage level to the point people are having to take welfare benefits even though they work.

    I think people need to stop voting for the old political parties as I think we can mostly agree they are all corrupt.

    Germany in the next EU budget are having to pay 1/4 of it on its own. Do you think thats not going to be an economic disaster for Germany? The german people again suffering for the ambition of its government.
     
  15. Mr Jack

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 19, 2004

    Posts: 15,766

    Location: Kiel, Germany

    There are, but tariffs are a major factor. And that's still ignoring the fact that tariffs helps protect our industries from unfair competition.

    Because it's the default; it's what will happen if we proceed with our currently proposed WTO options, and the natural result of pulling out of all the deals that currently mean we enjoy reciprocal low/no tariff deals around the world. It's also going to be deeply politically untenable for any UK leader to throw our farmers and other industries to the dogs for nothing in return.
     
  16. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 35,648

    Well low tariffs/low tax seems to be the approach the current UK govt wants to take in the event of no deal:

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1022681/brexit-news-theresa-may-uk-eu-latest-no-deal-brexit
     
  17. footman

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 21, 2002

    Posts: 3,687

    The elimination of tariffs may make some consumables marginally cheaper for part of the population (only if denying the effect of a drastic hit on the pound) but as Leave campaigns pet “economist” P.Minford admits, the effect on manufacturing industries will be catastrophic.
    As ever Brexiters refuse to discuss the effects of non-tariff barriers because they are too complex. Apparently some amazing electronic solutions are readily available. Where are they?
     
  18. Mr Jack

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 19, 2004

    Posts: 15,766

    Location: Kiel, Germany

    1/4 of the EU budget is less than Germany's budget surplus for the first sixth months of this year. So... I'm going to go with: no?
     
  19. Steampunk

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 1, 2013

    Posts: 5,318

    Who's hiring that cheap labour? Companies (big and small) who don't want to pay a living wage or invest in higher productivity. Then they rely on the government topping up through benefits, while at the same time paying their executives massive wages and bonuses. That's what happens when you stick to failed trickle down economics where the one percent get richer as the poor get poorer, instead of having a tax system that encourages investment in companies and employees, instead of hoarding of wealth at the top at the expense of the bottom.
     
  20. do_ron_ron

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 7,032

    It is international companies that are in charge of pay rates not the EU. It is the UK Govt in charge of the National Minimum Wage and the Living Wage NOT the EU. That is Tory Policy. Like a lot of moans of Brexiteers it is in the hands of the UK Govt to do something about it but they do not.

    Apart from the equivalent of UKIP, the AfD most Germans are just getting on with it.