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Brexit Discussion

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by FrenchTart, Sep 11, 2016.

  1. Mr Jack

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 19, 2004

    Posts: 16,516

    Location: Kiel, Germany

    How does eliminating tariffs, thereby destroying almost entirely our negotiating hand, make new trade deals? How does it help the UK trade globally, for that matter?
     
  2. Steampunk

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 1, 2013

    Posts: 5,944

    And they decided that the UK farming industry should be allowed to die in favour of cheap, poor quality imports from the US and elsewhere. Just like coal mining, steel industry, etc.
     
  3. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 38,298

    Not all tariffs per say, the point is that the direction is the opposite to that implied by the other poster.
     
  4. Mr Jack

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 19, 2004

    Posts: 16,516

    Location: Kiel, Germany

    Okay, how does lowering tariffs help?

    The fact is, that in contrast to the blithering nonsense from the Brexiteers, tariffs will go up all over the place because any other option is huge disaster for the UK.
     
  5. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 38,298

    With regards to trade deals, it doesn't necessarily, that wasn't the point being made. It doesn't necessarily hinder them either, there are still issues other than tariffs to discuss etc.. Regardless this is going off on a tangent from the point actually being made/discussed previously.

    Really - how can you be sure of that? Who is proposing it?
     
  6. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 8,267

    Except worsening Balance of Payments requiring more borrowing. Too many landed Tories still, even Boris.
     
  7. Sheff

    Hitman

    Joined: Jun 16, 2008

    Posts: 903

    Location: Newton Abbot

    I'm talking about perception of their handling here in reference to the viewed inaction of the EU over Russia (how the sanctions in place aren't very well regarded by the public) rather than blaming the EU over these events.
     
  8. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 8,267

    Problem is the EU requires Russian gas via the pipeline. The UK can mouth of because it is not connected to this pipeline but Germany etc are and winters are upon us. It is also never good to isolate a country, Churchill's 'jaw, jaw.........'
     
  9. BowdonUK

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 1,737

    You make a good point about buying cheap products from other countries sent our own industries out of business.

    But the same can be said for importing cheap labour, lowering the wage level to the point people are having to take welfare benefits even though they work.

    I think people need to stop voting for the old political parties as I think we can mostly agree they are all corrupt.

    Germany in the next EU budget are having to pay 1/4 of it on its own. Do you think thats not going to be an economic disaster for Germany? The german people again suffering for the ambition of its government.
     
  10. Mr Jack

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 19, 2004

    Posts: 16,516

    Location: Kiel, Germany

    There are, but tariffs are a major factor. And that's still ignoring the fact that tariffs helps protect our industries from unfair competition.

    Because it's the default; it's what will happen if we proceed with our currently proposed WTO options, and the natural result of pulling out of all the deals that currently mean we enjoy reciprocal low/no tariff deals around the world. It's also going to be deeply politically untenable for any UK leader to throw our farmers and other industries to the dogs for nothing in return.
     
  11. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 38,298

    Well low tariffs/low tax seems to be the approach the current UK govt wants to take in the event of no deal:

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1022681/brexit-news-theresa-may-uk-eu-latest-no-deal-brexit
     
  12. footman

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 21, 2002

    Posts: 3,752

    The elimination of tariffs may make some consumables marginally cheaper for part of the population (only if denying the effect of a drastic hit on the pound) but as Leave campaigns pet “economist” P.Minford admits, the effect on manufacturing industries will be catastrophic.
    As ever Brexiters refuse to discuss the effects of non-tariff barriers because they are too complex. Apparently some amazing electronic solutions are readily available. Where are they?
     
  13. Mr Jack

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 19, 2004

    Posts: 16,516

    Location: Kiel, Germany

    1/4 of the EU budget is less than Germany's budget surplus for the first sixth months of this year. So... I'm going to go with: no?
     
  14. Steampunk

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 1, 2013

    Posts: 5,944

    Who's hiring that cheap labour? Companies (big and small) who don't want to pay a living wage or invest in higher productivity. Then they rely on the government topping up through benefits, while at the same time paying their executives massive wages and bonuses. That's what happens when you stick to failed trickle down economics where the one percent get richer as the poor get poorer, instead of having a tax system that encourages investment in companies and employees, instead of hoarding of wealth at the top at the expense of the bottom.
     
  15. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 8,267

    It is international companies that are in charge of pay rates not the EU. It is the UK Govt in charge of the National Minimum Wage and the Living Wage NOT the EU. That is Tory Policy. Like a lot of moans of Brexiteers it is in the hands of the UK Govt to do something about it but they do not.

    Apart from the equivalent of UKIP, the AfD most Germans are just getting on with it.
     
  16. Cern

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 3, 2008

    Posts: 3,025

    Location: London

    What new political parties are available for people to vote for then?

    There's no point simply not voting, this just perpetuates the situation.

    Not that I disagree with your point, British politics is stale, stagnant and corrupt. But there's no viable alternatives at present, nor any new parties in the process of forming. Anything that isn't a juggernaut like the Tories or Labour doesn't stand a chance in a first past the post system.

    We somehow need to get a better system of governance in Parliament, but without a total constitutional crisis / collapse this is never going to happen, even if the Tories seem to be trying their hardest to cause one.
     
  17. HazardO

    Underboss

    Joined: Jun 16, 2009

    Posts: 7,472

    Location: Cambridge

    And while some goods may become cheaper, the pressure on manufacturers and farmers to cut costs to compete will mean lower working standards, less pay, and lower quality product, which then feeds back to the employee's ability to pay for things. So we end up earning less to pay for the same volume or lower quality product. Those individuals that have managed to offshore their investments however will benefit as they can maintain their spending power. Meanwhile the majority of us work harder for less.

    The abject failure of our successive governments to extract fair taxes from international corporations who make good profits in this country but are resident elsewhere for tax purposes is one of the biggest problems here. Lowering their taxes won't bring in more money. We should be leaving google, facebook and apple not the EU.
     
  18. pmc25

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Nov 24, 2010

    Posts: 1,978

    Quite the opposite.

    Churchill in his latter years when he became much more doveish and more of an internationalist, rather than imperialist, absolutely wanted and advocated for a federal Europe.

    Also, I think you mean Anglo-Benelux-German-Nordic alliance. Until Brexit, France's horrendously messy and polarised politics meant that its influence in Europe and on EU policy direction had been waning for 30 years (see the unrest of the last month due to tone deaf government and militant unions).
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
  19. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 8,267

    Plus over the years France was fighting for the continuation of the levels of the CAP as it benefited France's very small farms. CAP has been reduced quite a bit.
     
  20. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 8,267

    Brexit TV debate on ITV scrapped by ITV.