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Brexit Discussion

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by FrenchTart, Sep 11, 2016.

  1. V F

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 13, 2003

    Posts: 15,147

    Location: UK

    No but some people in fact a lot quote our press like it's gospel.
     
  2. FortuitousFluke

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 7, 2011

    Posts: 3,008

    Location: Cambridgeshire

    I'd argue that we might well be one of the best at it. The way the redtops work isn't just disinformation peddling or propaganda, it's incredibly manipulative on a personal and collective scale. I'd be impressed if I weren't so concerned. It's not just them either, even the broadsheets and broadcasters are guilty to an extent.

    The thing about spin is that everyone stopped talking about it after Campbell, we're back on the topic now with the whole fake news era but it's much more calculated than just throwing out some dodgy statistics or printing lies.
     
  3. inogen

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 19, 2009

    Posts: 2,814

    It's not just the press, it's anything they read, or hear that someone has read.
     
  4. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 60,148

    I don't think the reasons (many of them nothing to do with the EU) that got a lot of people voting leave in the first place have gone away mind infact in some cases the opposite but those issues aren't going to be resolved by voting leave either.
     
  5. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 16,356

    Good, cause then it's definitely no deal and the associated social collapse that brings will be delicious.
     
  6. V F

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 13, 2003

    Posts: 15,147

    Location: UK

    You're such a bundle of joys.
     
  7. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 37,628

    I'm not talking about dodgy statistics or lies but simply reactionary content reliant on comments/perceptions from the continent.

    Say we get an extension for a second referendum with a remain option and say remain is the strong favourite... there is a reasonable chance that some politician on the continent or some high ranking official somewhere will make some disparaging comment, perhaps some newspaper in France or Germany will mock the UK etc... That sort of thing would inevitably be pounced on by certain publications and could swing things.

    Eh??? Why?
     
  8. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 16,356

    If it's what the people want, give it to them. :)
     
  9. BowdonUK

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 1,537

    Though I suspect we're going to end up remaining in the EU, by hook or by crook, the amount of issues currently in the UK would be prime ground for a right wing leader to come forward because ultimately the political establishment would have failed in carrying out a democratic vote.
     
  10. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 16,283

    We have a right-wing leader. Theresa May

    Do you mean extreme right-wing?
     
  11. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 16,356

    Will happen literally either way, all options fail to solve interior problems, once Brexit fails to solve them, many will be permanently agitated, I think the political class is about to realise that they're expendable.
     
  12. DarkHorizon472

    Wise Guy

    Joined: May 16, 2007

    Posts: 2,253

    The right wing leaders are mainly establishment figures from the same background.
     
  13. Tony Edwards

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 1,777

    The villain.
    There will without doubt be problems caused by some angry brexiters, how far it will go is any ones guess. While your dad might not actually go out and cause trouble his ramblings on the web have the potential to wind others up more than they already are. It is how the likes of Thomas Mair (Jo Cox) and Darren Osborne (Finsbury van attack) got radicalised and there are probably thousand like them just stewing (just look at some of the GD posters). Add to that we now have even less police than at the time of the last riots and dont forget Khan sold our only water cannons. \sarcasm
    The difference is we now know a bit better what brexit might look like and the sort of lies that need addressing and this time round not as many people will be fooled by the lies. It would still leave people like yourself that are not swayed by the lies but would vote still to leave anyway. Hopefully those numbers dont add up to the millions that voted before and I dont doubt most of the people that have changed their mind would now be more likely to vote remain this time round even if just out of regret.
    Yet brexit was won by "crook" so if for any reason we should have a second ref just for that.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  14. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Aug 4, 2007

    Posts: 7,535

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    Yeah ok, its difficult to explain. When you poll members everyone is the same right, all are equal. (Bit like you can poll 18 year olds, but you need to weight the fact they may not get out of bed ;) to vote where as the older generations will go and vote)
    When you actually are amongst them you find its a little different, as the ones kind of moving forwards, ie putting themselves up for roles, looking to be elected etc are typically younger and hence are more pro EU than the general membership.
    Hope that makes sense, call it a weighted valuation if you want.

    What could happen though, and this I agree would skew them towards leave, and quite heavily, is if the far more anti EU members do start putting themselves up, as at that point if they run on that as their main "policy" as such they would stand a high chance of election. The Tory party is democratic, but to properly reflect the balance of the membership people representing those views need to be willing to step up. There is just as much civil war at local membership level as you see in the chamber of MPs, but it tends to fizzle out much faster when its time to get the next (cheap) round in.
     
  15. JeditOjanen

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 7, 2011

    Posts: 3,772

    Still Theresa May.

    Regarding the size of Leave/Remain demos: the Save Our Brexit protest or whatever it was called had at most 1500 people turn up. The march for the People's Vote had an estimated 700,000. Not "in the millions", if we're being pedantic, but that's still over 1% of the UK population turning out for a single demonstration.
     
  16. SPG

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 28, 2010

    Posts: 4,963

    The political solution was to have Leader that respected the decision and not tie the country in stupid knots where we would be better off stating in. So we can all point the finger to remainers for that side of things.

    No deal was and should be the only solution, and the rest of the world wants us in the May deal as it even worse than no deal.......

    Tory power FTW.
     
  17. Irish_Tom

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 11,713

    It's not the ones prepared to demonstrate that I'm worried about. It's the silent majority who turn up on polling day… :o

    I know there have been recent polls that suggest Remain would win a second referendum but firstly, we know that we can't trust polls and secondly, what if it's not a referendum but a general election where the primary choice is still between two main parties who both intend to proceed with Brexit?

    I didn't think there were enough people who would vote for Brexit in the first place but I was proven very wrong.

    There may not be blood on the streets if Brexit was cancelled but it would have significant ramifications for politics for decades. Equally, give the country another chance to vote on it (GE or referendum Mk2) and, as much as I hate to say it, I expect Brexit would still be the outcome in one form or another.
     
  18. matt100

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 31, 2004

    Posts: 10,821

    Location: Salisbury

    Err... because they were utterly useless white elephants purchased as a populist stunt by everyone's favourite buffoon

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-38315784

    Or.. we could have had an adult of any persuasion assemble a cross party group to explore how we respect the result without torpedoing the economy etc.

    What we actually got was about the most partisan thing I've ever seen in the UK with vacuous phrases like "brexit means brexit" meaning everyone could interpret it however they liked and understandably be upset when it turned out what they thought was the case really wasn't, all when it was too late.

    Again.. tory power FTW.

    Or should that be SMH?
     
  19. doodah

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 18,603

    Location: London

    This definitely needs more explaining.....
     
  20. Terminal_Boy

    Soldato

    Joined: Apr 13, 2013

    Posts: 5,882

    Location: La France

    Every so slightly right of centre, basically another Blue Blair.