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Brexit Discussion

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by FrenchTart, Sep 11, 2016.

  1. Tony Edwards

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 1,483

    Sorry guys forgot the sarcasm or should it be irony tags.
     
  2. doodah

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 18,184

    Location: London

    What an incredibly convenient explanation, wasn't sensing any in the sentences leading up to it.
     
  3. SPG

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 28, 2010

    Posts: 4,757

    No it really was the case, the vote of leave was the majority, Only the beetling of remainers have brought to a standstill/standoff.

    You can argue the economic consequences till you are blue in the teeth, the majority who could be bothered to actually vote were stuck in places where being on the dump pile anyway and tired of seeing there crap little communites being overrun by Europeans you can argue the same for the older generation.

    OCUK forums is generally not people from the bottom of the pile.....

    I do find it highly ironic though they you the economic argument on one hand yet laugh in the face of social co-hesion and the impact of this influx of people on communities, yet moan about house prices on the other and yet again suddenly take on social issues regarding education/NHS etc etc.
     
  4. do_ron_ron

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 7,417

    Really? Her time as Home Secretary shows what she is and it is not slightly right of centre.
     
  5. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 15,634

    She's principally authoritarian first and foremost before any economy policy comes to the fore, though her cuts to the Police make it hard to see what exactly she wants.
     
  6. DarkHorizon472

    Wise Guy

    Joined: May 16, 2007

    Posts: 1,973

    That's a fair comment but the problem is down to successive UK national governments and has nothing to do with the EU. Leave the EU on a no deal and you still have the same UK national government that caused a lot of the problems you suggest but with a tanking economy and even less to spend than currently.
     
  7. bayo000

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 28, 2008

    Posts: 3,597

    Location: Manchester

    Always someone else's fault isn't it? Why don't you blame leading brexiters like Boris, Davis, Gove etc for not delivering what they promised before the referendum when they had a chance?
     
  8. do_ron_ron

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 7,417

    The same of BS. The 'standstill' is because the Tory Party who have brought this fiasco, promising the undeliverable, being painted into a corner by May's red lines, have now realised the economic catastrophe facing the country. They are incapable of deciding a way forward. These same people still have access to the NHS, for example, but Brexit makes it more likely to fail or be curtailed due to lack of funds. As President Clinton said "It is the economy, stupid". Without the economy everything else is irrelevant. What community has been 'overrun by Europeans? The lack of jobs and amenities is down to the UK Govt not the EU. This is typical Brexiteer spin. The UK problems are the fault of the EU when they are patently the fault of the UK Govts. The inability of Brexiteers to give a way forward is the fault of Remainers. Blame others for your own mistakes.

    Some of us in our lifetimes have been there and do not want the next generation to go back to that time.

    This is the fault of UK Govts. Not building Social Housing and getting rid of the current stock due to ideological positions. What has the EU done to prevent the Govt building social houses? The messing around with education by both parties have made education worse, not the EU. The pointless Academy creation. Wasting money reorganising th deck chairs instaed of using it on equipment or teachers.
     
  9. do_ron_ron

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 7,417

    I would like to see where on the political map the Tories are but I cannot remember the site where they are ranked but I bet it is not 'slightly right of Centre'
     
  10. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 15,634

    Things like "not immediately bombing the NHS" and keeping benefits schemes going is why there aren't typically perceived as such, while their belief's might ultimately be very right-wing, reality is decidedly more boring.
     
  11. Freakbro

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 29, 2010

    Posts: 13,722

    Location: Lincs

    Here it is for the 2017 GE.

    https://www.politicalcompass.org/uk2017

    Also interesting at the bottom of the article is another compass showing how the political parties have moved since 1972
     
  12. do_ron_ron

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 7,417

    Thanks for that. I agree with their position of the Tories, very right wing and authoritarian.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  13. matt100

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 31, 2004

    Posts: 10,513

    Location: Salisbury

    Firstly the received wisdom is that it was people experiencing difficulties who voted leave but I believe I'm right in saying the majority of the vote came from places that didn't have large scale immigration. Like cornwall, or wales or whatever.. big uran centres where this actually tends to be a problem mostly voted remain.

    And secondly... I do what?

    I don't recall "laughing in the face of social cohesion" I also haven't moaned about house prices other than the fact they keep going up further inflating a bubble which again has little to do with immigration.

    If you mean me specifically you're going to need to expand and quote.

    Otherwise it just sounds like another ill informed "but the immigrants! take back control! less regulation! (the specifics of which I cannot and will not explain)" ramble.
     
  14. do_ron_ron

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 7,417

    The reason they did 'not immediately bomb the NHS' is because it is too big to do that in one go. The Tories have played the long game with privitising the NHS. They give favourable terms to private providers while making the NHS pick up their mistakes. Selling of units when they could. The re-organisation into Trusts is another example of preparing for getting rid of them. Each hospital is like a company making it easier to sell(probably to the Yanks) eventually. Keeping benefit schemes? Only in as much as they could not get rid of them without causing massive upheavals. We already have working poor using food banks. The huge rise of food banks, clothes banks and other charities providing essentials shows they are pushing in the direction of reducing benefits.
     
  15. dl8860

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 25, 2010

    Posts: 2,457

    Location: Surrey

    What's the scale here? Where would the republican party in the US come in on that scale? About a million miles off the right of it. They are basically saying the conservatives couldn't be any more right wing if they tried.
     
  16. Domo

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 11, 2004

    Posts: 4,349

    Location: Surrey, UK

  17. do_ron_ron

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 7,417

    In my lifetime they have lurched right from a 'one nation' centre right party, first by Thatcher to the position today. People born/raised under Thatcher would, I assume, have that as their starting point and it would not seem as far right.
     
  18. dl8860

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 25, 2010

    Posts: 2,457

    Location: Surrey

    Sure they may be right compared to where they were 30/40 years ago.

    Is the scale historical extremes of major parties in the UK, or a true left to right compass. Even if the former, I'm not sure I think they should be so far to the right.
     
  19. garnett

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 25, 2008

    Posts: 3,091

    Hilarious.

    Whenever people say that you mustn't make an issue about Brexiteers being less educated because then they will not change their mind, I think of posts like these.

    What we have seen consistently from the Leave voters is a shirking of responsibility...

    "Immigrants took my life opportunities"

    "I was made to feel like we'd lost our sovereignty"

    And now...

    "Nobody's been able to serve me a Brexit that meets the 17.4m different and conflicting fantasies my side voted for."

    For the sake of appeasement - I'm not saying you fit the Brexiteer stereotype of less education. I'm saying your posts contain the language of shirking of responsibility seen so often before.
     
  20. SPG

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 28, 2010

    Posts: 4,757

    Not blaming anyone its how it is...........51 > 49

    Now if we had System that actually worked and was useful the leaders of said system might have said... Hang on this is really really close. Maybe we should look into this a little more before pulling the plug, but they didnt so we have a cluster ****

    "That's a fair comment but the problem is down to successive UK national governments and has nothing to do with the EU. Leave the EU on a no deal and you still have the same UK national government that caused a lot of the problems you suggest but with a tanking economy and even less to spend than currently"

    I agree, but the people it effected do not care, its nothing to lose syndrome, the hand that was feeding them was getting smaller and smaller anyway if you have nothing to lose then you might as well lose......