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Brexit Discussion

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by FrenchTart, Sep 11, 2016.

  1. FishFluff

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 7, 2003

    Posts: 4,850

    Location: Deepest, darkest Leeds

    It’s complete nonsense. The first paragraph states how no-deal would be damaging to the EU. It then completely fails to mention that it would be even more damaging to the UK. Unsurprising that you think it’s unbiased since it’s telling you what you want to hear.
     
  2. Evangelion

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 29, 2007

    Posts: 21,425

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

  3. V F

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 13, 2003

    Posts: 15,260

    Location: UK

    The same people that were impressed by Tony Blair, Barack Obama, Gordon Brown and Ed Milliband speeches...
     
  4. Irish_Tom

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 11,855

    Good article.

    It’s a sad stare of affairs when Nicky Morgan is considered one of the few voices of reason. :(
     
  5. Evangelion

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 29, 2007

    Posts: 21,425

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    Join us live for robfosters' answer!

    :D
     
  6. Murphy

    Hitman

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 960

    That's not strictly true, the EU and it's predecessors do share some of his view or aims. Where McstylisT gets it completely wrong though is when (s)he said "It was designed to ruin and invade", it was designed to do the polar opposite in fact, the guy he's talking about was a pacifist, a supporter of social democracy, wanted individualism and socialism in equal measures, and was highly critical of fascism and communism. I guess the fact that Hitler was highly critical of its pacifism and mechanical economism and called him a "rootless, cosmopolitan, and elitist half-breed" tell you all you need to know, i mean McstylisT is literally has the same view as fascists.
     
  7. chrcoluk

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 27, 2015

    Posts: 3,054

    Best outcome? Where everyone happy?

    UK leaves.
    Scotland leaves UK and rejoins EU
    Remainers (most of sensible people and young people) emigrate to scotland.
    Scotland thrives in the future whilst the UK weakens economically. Goes on the brink of collapse as it tries to pay the pensions to the old generation that voted leave whilst not getting the taxes to pay for it from the young workforce that emigrated.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  8. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 8,267

    You are right about the pay day loans companies. There was a TV investigative prog about this and they found that most of these companies(at the time of the prog) could be traced back to two US companies. It also stated that the US had tightened up on these companies and they were not allowed to loan at the same rates as they did in the UK.
     
  9. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 46,239

    Location: Plymouth

    The eu/uk tone has kind of set what would be acceptable in a negotiation between the rUK and Scotland, it wouldn't be pretty.
     
  10. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 17,425

    Perhaps not, but it simply wouldn’t have the same outcome, Scotland could survive without much grievance in a tariff landscape with rUK while benefiting from the EUs increasingly comprehensive trade structure.

    Scotland would only have to make a single good trade deal, ostensibly one that would involve the EU, while rUK has to make dozens of poor deals.
     
  11. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 8,267

    Unbiased?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/23/shanker-singham-is-he-the-brains-of-brexit
     
  12. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 46,239

    Location: Plymouth

    Scotland has no currency or lender of last resort of its own, no armed forces etc etc.

    It's been established that the larger group can treat the leaver as harshly as they want without repercussions, so I see no reason why the rUK would give Scotland much of anything unless they agreed to things that would benefit us.

    The eu negotiation has even established that past taxpayer contributions to things don't require splitting or compensation when you choose to leave...
     
  13. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 61,104

  14. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 11,515

    Exactly. The EU have now set the example of how to treat a country which wants to leave an organisation.
     
  15. chrcoluk

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 27, 2015

    Posts: 3,054

    They would benefit from EU armies etc.

    Remember the quote from Junker, irish borders are EU's borders.
     
  16. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 46,239

    Location: Plymouth

    They might, after they join. The problem is an independent Scotland wouldn't meet the criteria, and the new joiner process (which the eu have already confirmed would apply to both an independent Scotland and a rejoining UK) takes years and requires unanimity...

    This is another example of unicorn thinking I'm afraid.
     
  17. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 17,425

    Scotland can peg without much issue, it would be a waste of the UKs poor position to aggravate on many points of contention for a country that’s likely to join their nearest largest trading bloc.

    And being treated harshly won’t be any different to now anyway, at least it will be something more than contempt and apathy.
     
  18. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 11,515

    There is no EU army and without the UK in it, it would basically just be the French army. Since the other EU nations don't have much of a military.

    Anyway why would Scotland leave the UK and then join the EU? I though the whole reason for leaving was for independence...
     
  19. chrcoluk

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 27, 2015

    Posts: 3,054

    Yes it would be a rough transition, the best case scenario is simply if the UK doesnt leave, however if the UK does leave scotland is probably better leaving the UK, then rejoining the EU. I also think scotland will push for that.

    The EU trading bloc is way way bigger than the UK. We not in the 1800s anymore.
     
  20. chrcoluk

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 27, 2015

    Posts: 3,054

    Which is probably fine, the modern world for developed countries is trade not war.

    The UK army in recent times has only really been used as a nuclear deterrent and to assist america in invading countries.