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Brexit Discussion

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by FrenchTart, Sep 11, 2016.

  1. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 30,439

    May's deal in many way keeps us in political alignment with the EU, much like we are now, but without a seat at the table or a veto, i don't know but it may mean we would have to adopt EU legislation, such as the Copy Right Directive and much more of that crap coming down the line, Black Boxes in your car recording your activity.....
     
  2. chroniclard

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 23, 2014

    Posts: 11,842

    Location: Hertfordshire

    Mays deal is worse than staying in but no deal is better? Leavers logic, ignoring facts every step of the way.
     
  3. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 30,439

    It is, i have no desire to live in an Authoritarian Dystopia.
     
  4. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 8,639

    What country is this you are talking about? It is not what happens in the UK and never has.
     
  5. jimjamuk

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 30, 2007

    Posts: 2,756

    Location: Bristol, UK

    I'll give you revoking Art50 would be better than TM's deal so

    No deal > Revoke A50 > TM Deal
     
  6. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 30,439

    Its the definition of democracy, something we invented.
     
  7. Cern

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 3, 2008

    Posts: 3,164

    Location: London

    Speed limiters on all new cars too. There's something else to froth about. Except that the UK government has also committed to implementing this, even in the event of a No Deal Brexit.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...to-have-speed-limiters-by-2022-under-eu-plans

    Best get your blue passport at the ready then and ship out, because most of the EU legislation that you are railing against has come into force with the assistance and backing of the UK government. Whether we leave with No Deal or stay linked to EU legislation in some way, the UK government will still implement or mirror most of this legislation.

    Oh but we can vote against it you will say. Good luck with that in a country that can't see past the Conservative Party.
     
  8. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 8,639

    What, after all that and you are leaving the UK?:eek:
     
  9. Sleepery

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jun 4, 2003

    Posts: 9,842

    Location: Fraggle Rock

    The stuff you come out with gets more unhinged by the minute. Democracy - Ancient Greek civilisation.
     
  10. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 8,639

    That was the Greeks. We do not and never had direct democracy in this country, we have and always had representative democracy, Your rep votes on his/her conscience.
     
  11. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 30,439

    If its solely the UK government we can vote them out if we don't like it, however if its through an external law making body made up of 27 other nations voicing our opposition to this and doing something about it becomes almost impossible, this is why a lot of MP's like the EU, they can have their cake and not be kicked out for eating it.
     
  12. Cern

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 3, 2008

    Posts: 3,164

    Location: London

    Ok, let's take this proposed car speed limiter legislation. Let's say we No Deal, the EU passes this legislation and the UK government agrees to mirror it, not because they have to but because they believe it's the right thing to do.

    Now let's assume that most of the public don't like it, because who likes being told they need to be sensible? Most of us probably would prefer to preserve the right to speed around the road system and take our chances with law enforcement, not to be automatically prevented from it by something built into our cars.

    So, how do we oppose it? What mainstream political party is likely to oppose road safety? And even if somehow they did, how will you get a new car without this technology fitted? Will you be expecting cars to be made only for the UK market without this technology? Will you be willing to pay the increased price? How will our roads cope with a mix of cars that do and don't use this technology (beyond the obvious initial transition period)?

    And so on. Rinse and repeat for all manner of other legislation you may or may not like.
     
  13. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 8,639

    We tend to get opt outs if we do not like it as has been proven in the past.
     
  14. Harlequin

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 17, 2004

    Posts: 2,928

    Location: Eastbourne , East Sussex.


    Democracy is the English word , via French and Latin from the original Greek δημοκρατία which means demokratia ; Demos = the people, kratia = rule. Its literally means Rule of the People. Plato was not a fan of democracy ;)


    As for the previous comment about mp`s :

     
  15. Bonjour

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Mar 30, 2004

    Posts: 9,076

    Location: London

    I thought that was the Greeks.
     
  16. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 30,439

    You're making the assumption that the majority want Black Box recorders and speed limiters on their cars, i don't think they do, i think most people think that is intrusion too far and any political party proposing it would only convince people who are already inclined to have state intrusion into their lives. it would go against them in elections but if they can get the EU to adopt it that way they are not answerable to their own electorate.
    The EU is a proxy tool for what they cannot get passed in their our parliament.

    This is where "taking back control" comes from.

    If the UK government don't like it, and even then they have to negotiate an optout
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2019
  17. FortuitousFluke

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 7, 2011

    Posts: 3,418

    Location: Cambridgeshire

    Yeah, if I were trying to get unpopular policy approved I'd try and do it through the route that required me to negotiate with 27 other Countries. Sounds a doddle.

    Also if the EU is effectively a parliamentary glove puppet then where's the sovereignty argument? We control the UK and all of Europe!
     
  18. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 30,439

    Oh this goes on all the time, and its really not difficult to get idea's like this past the EU, they are collective control freaks.
     
  19. inogen

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 19, 2009

    Posts: 3,129


    [​IMG]
     
  20. b0rn2sk8

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 9, 2003

    Posts: 4,166

    how do you know it’s unpopular? Most drivers don’t speed, especially around town. You can still accelerate as quickly as you want and go over the limit of you floor the throttle.

    Edit: it’s also supported by both labour and conservative MEPs

    It will also likely help with congestion because it will normalise the speed on big multi lane roads