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Brexit Discussion

Discussion in 'SC Archive' started by FrenchTart, Sep 11, 2016.

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  1. Screeeech

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 29, 2014

    Posts: 3,245

    Location: Dublin / LA

    One thing that makes me laugh about this whole omni-**** is how David Cameron has absolutely disappeared, I mean - we don’t even hear from him at all nowadays :D
     
  2. Terminal_Boy

    Soldato

    Joined: Apr 13, 2013

    Posts: 6,893

    Location: La France

    He’s hiding in the pub until it all blows over...
     
  3. satchef1

    Mobster

    Joined: Apr 17, 2009

    Posts: 4,141

    The problem isn't just endemic in the Tories.

    The only parties that have shown any willingness to compromise are Labour, the SNP, and Plaid. As much as I'm not keen on Labour, I do admire them for actually trying of late.

    Norman Lamb was reportedly fuming with his Lib Dem colleagues last night, seeing their continued reluctance to support anything other than another referendum as a further step toward the UK leaving the EU without a deal.
     
  4. billysielu

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 9, 2009

    Posts: 11,438

    Location: Oxfordshire

    Just a thought--
    If cabinet didn't cast votes last night, then today they know they have enough votes to create a majority for the customs union.
     
  5. Steampunk

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 1, 2013

    Posts: 6,504

    But the judges ruled her correct, so it doesn't matter what she challenges as the judges are the final arbiters, not Gina Miller and her money. In law, it was proven that the government were trying to cut Parliament out of the Brexit process and deny Parliamentary Sovereignty.

    Surely the fact that someone, anyone went to court to sort out that betrayal of the Tory party against democracy and Parliamentary Sovereignty is a good thing, regardless of who did it?
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2019
  6. Screeeech

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 29, 2014

    Posts: 3,245

    Location: Dublin / LA

    I think the game they’re playing now, is less about getting a majority for something, instead looking at which option failed by the fewest votes, then trying to pursue that instead.

    it’s just so desperate.
     
  7. Murphy

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 2,272

    That split happened over 4 years ago, Cameron promised a referendum to shore up support for the conservatives and prevent more MPs defecting to UKIP in 2014-15.
     
  8. Harlequin

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 17, 2004

    Posts: 2,948

    Location: Eastbourne , East Sussex.

    And yet 2 years later, they are still trying to do it
     
  9. satchef1

    Mobster

    Joined: Apr 17, 2009

    Posts: 4,141

    Yes and no.

    Some of those who backed alternatives last night would only do so formally if they were put to the public in a referendum, while others wouldn't vote for any legislation that contains another referendum.
     
  10. matt100

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 31, 2004

    Posts: 11,378

    Location: Salisbury

    I'll be honest I don't often agree with your view but that's quite interesting actually. One thing to bear in mind though is there's likely enough in cabinet at least to also vote against so it's not so clear cut.
     
  11. FortuitousFluke

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 7, 2011

    Posts: 3,624

    Location: Cambridgeshire

    If you take it a step further and assume (and it's a big assumption) that May has sufficient control of her cabinet, she's effectively set herself up as a kingmaker. Especially if the result last night is the limit of what the indicative vote process can achieve, and without a shift within the Tory ranks it could well be, I'm not convinced Clarke's suggestion of linking another deal e.g. CU 2.0 to a confirmatory vote won't alienate as many people as it attracts.

    Having said that whipping the Tories garners the same result and the same downsides in terms of party splits. Ignore me.
     
  12. Jono8

    Caporegime

    Joined: May 20, 2007

    Posts: 28,801

    Location: Surrey

    Customs union combined with a 2nd ref would get the majority.

    The voting numbers show this.
     
  13. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 41,648

    It seems like such a cop out option, there is already essentially a default customs union as part of the backstop in the current withdrawal agreement but at least there there is a commitment to negotiate a future arrangement. Yet some would prefer opting for a CU voluntarily and cynically I think the reason for it from Labour is that they know full well their leave voting areas up North are very anti immigrant so they'd rather vote for something like that.

    Nick Boles is on point with his criticism of the Tory party when he resigned IMO, the Norway/EEA option with single market membership and avoiding getting locked into a customs union would be a preferable "soft Brexit" option yet May doesn't want to compromise even at this stage. Yup we'd be open to free movement of people but the government and indeed any future one would then be incentivised to make use of the tools already available to control immigration if needed, could well introduce national IDs etc... his party ought to have been backing that option as frankly no deal isn't something a majority wants (and there could well be a rushed reaction for anything to avoid it if we're still undecided at the deadline).
     
  14. 200sols

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 14, 2018

    Posts: 2,210

    Location: Hampshire

    So the referendum would be between Customs union vs no deal?
     
  15. Evangelion

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 29, 2007

    Posts: 22,560

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    And when you factor in the non-British white population, the total White percentage hits a solid 60%. What was your point again?
     
  16. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 41,648

    What does the "total white percentage" have to do with anything?
     
  17. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 9,139

    It was claimed on Newsnight last night that the Tory Party goes through a split every 70 years between the 'Internationalists' and the 'nationalists'. The guy claimed if you look back to the 1800's to today the Tory Party split then reformed. So if he is right this could be the latest event in this series.
     
  18. krooton

    Caporegime

    Joined: May 9, 2004

    Posts: 25,197

    Location: Leafy outskirts of London

    I just realised that, whilst I am a filthy migrant, my mother was born in England (hence me being here).
    But she herself was born to Eastern European migrants, I'm my very own migrantception!
     
  19. Murphy

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 2,272

    If that's correct can't they leave the country out of it. :)
     
  20. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 9,139

    What when there is lots of money to be made for the insiders?
     
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