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Brexit Discussion

Discussion in 'SC Archive' started by FrenchTart, 11 Sep 2016.

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  1. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: 17 Mar 2012

    Posts: 39,038

    She will keep asking for mini extentions, over and over and over again right up to the next general election, she is fanatical about her treaty.
     
  2. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: 17 Mar 2012

    Posts: 39,038

    Its nothing to do with people, i think despite whats going on in here a lot of remainers have accepted we voted out and would be willing to go with some form of Brexit deal, the problem is parliament, there are fanatical eurofiles on one side and Brexit fanatics on the other.

    The only thing that could sort this out is another general election and they ain't going to go for it because they know they have ####'ed off so many people a bunch of them on both sides will lose seats to smaller parties.
     
  3. do_ron_ron

    Capodecina

    Joined: 23 Oct 2002

    Posts: 10,832

    Her Party can get rid of her at the end of the year, though.
     
  4. do_ron_ron

    Capodecina

    Joined: 23 Oct 2002

    Posts: 10,832

    This is so much BS, it seems to be Brexiteer folklore. If Parliament were 'Fanatical Europhiles' or 'full of Remaniacs' then Art 50 would have been revoked 2 years ago and the Govt would have been giving out loads of studies which prove it is bad for the country. Parliament is split like the country. Hoey and Raab, MPs for Remain voting areas vote for leave. You will find examples on the other side as well.
     
  5. MadMossy

    Soldato

    Joined: 25 Oct 2004

    Posts: 7,228

    Location: Sunny Torbaydos

    I hope the EU 27 tell her to take a hike, this is getting beyond a joke now.
     
  6. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: 17 Mar 2012

    Posts: 39,038

    Hopefully they will do that, and soon.

    If parliament is so split they can't get a Brexit or a Brexit in name only through they ain't going to get a revocation of article 50 through either, are they?
     
  7. xyphic

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 11 Nov 2003

    Posts: 1,696

    Location: South Yorkshire

    Putting my optimist's hat on, I would like to think that this would present the perfect opportunity for radical reform. Maybe we need to break politics - and the electorate's view of democracy - in order to build a stronger country.

    Agreed, and it's unhelpful to suggest that revoking A50 would return the status quo. It may do so in terms of our position in the EU, but Brexit has opened up huge divides internally and we'll be dealing with the ramifications for years (if not decades) regardless of what happens next. We need to stop asking questions about our future relationships with the world and start asking questions about how we can fix what's been broken. Putting aside everything else, in my opinion the least damaging strategy has to be revocation because otherwise all our political bandwidth is going to be taken up with Brexit and those wounds it's opened up are only going to fester.
     
  8. GordyR

    Soldato

    Joined: 1 Dec 2003

    Posts: 5,737

    Location: Kent

    Wait... You think that MP's who have a preference for:

    Maintaining the status quo or as close as possible to it, in order to prevent significant economic damage and/or a loss of sovereignty.

    Are somehow fanatical? :confused:

    It's the status quo, by definition it cannot be considered 'fanatical'*

    Can you not see how warped that kind of thinking appears? It's like when you hear the far-left refer to socially left-wing liberals as rabid right-wingers.

    It's a claim you can only make when your own position is actually the extreme.

    *A fanatical Europhile would be calling to join Shengen, the Euro, and be campaigning for federalisation, they would not be favouring the status quo.
     
    Last edited: 5 Apr 2019
  9. Rilot

    Don

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 21,006

    Location: Wargrave, UK

    One interesting thing that I've noticed has fallen out of all of this is that people now identify as leavers or remainers rather than left or right. Listen to people phone in to LBC and they usually start with "I'm a remainer" or "I voted to leave the EU". Previously they would have identified themselves as a Conservative, Labour, whathaveyou supporter.
     
  10. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: 17 Mar 2012

    Posts: 39,038

    My guess is you just want the 52% to forget all about it, right? serious question.

    What i said was


    Both sides are fanatical, they fail to meet somewhere in the middle because both sides are sticking to extremes.
     
  11. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: 17 Mar 2012

    Posts: 39,038


    Yes, welcome to UK politics for the next two decades if this does not get sorted out....
     
  12. Rilot

    Don

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 21,006

    Location: Wargrave, UK

    I might start identifying as a pineapple when I phone LBC from now on.
     
  13. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: 17 Mar 2012

    Posts: 39,038

    :D

    Edit wait, do you phone in? who?
     
  14. Dj_Jestar

    Caporegime

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 29,212

    Location: Back in East London

    I wish it was "innie" or "outie" :(
     
  15. JHeaton

    Mobster

    Joined: 19 Dec 2009

    Posts: 2,669

    Location: Lancashire

    The simple solution to this would be the Norway model, basically (which IIRC was the most popular of the possible options at the time of the referendum).
     
  16. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: 17 Mar 2012

    Posts: 39,038

    Yeah maybe :)
     
  17. Rilot

    Don

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 21,006

    Location: Wargrave, UK

    I've spoken to Shelagh Fogarty a few times, Clive Bull at least twice, Nigel Farage a few times, and JOB once.
     
  18. JHeaton

    Mobster

    Joined: 19 Dec 2009

    Posts: 2,669

    Location: Lancashire

    I think it's the only logical choice at this point in that it fulfils the exact criteria set out by the referendum whilst causing the minimum amount of damage.

    I don't think it's the best thing we could do (from a remain perspective, it is largely pointless and is a downgrade from our current position), but it is the least damaging way of giving people who voted to leave what they voted for (and arguably is the only way of giving people exactly what they voted for).
     
  19. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: 17 Mar 2012

    Posts: 39,038

    Wow, Nick Ferrari is a good chap too, i have though about phoning in my self...
     
  20. GordyR

    Soldato

    Joined: 1 Dec 2003

    Posts: 5,737

    Location: Kent

    No... I would like everyone in the country, including that 52%, to be given a properly informed say with the experience of the last three years, without illegal manipulation or breaches of electoral spending, and after having been provided with demonstrably accurate information and 2 or more clearly defined, realistic choices.

    If this should not materialise, then some form of Norway-esque model would be a compromise that I could live with.

    This is not a fanatical preference. I do not consider the expectation of a plebiscite being conducted in a manner that is fully compliant with the law, at all fanatical.

    The only way it could be considered as such, is if you view it through the lens of the Brexit-Ultra's, who are themselves a fanatical minority, and have been the tail wagging the dog of government for quite some time now.

    You're making a false equivalence. To the extremes, more moderate positions always seem radical.
     
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