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Brexit Discussion

Discussion in 'SC Archive' started by FrenchTart, Sep 11, 2016.

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  1. mattyfez

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Apr 12, 2007

    Posts: 9,293


    Revoke a referendum? Lol.

    No, revoke article 50 via second (fair and legal one this time) referendum. Precursors to this are a hung parliament following a GE following a vote of no confidence in the government, which is more likely if we get a deal or no deal PM in next (highly likely).

    Do you understand? Lol!
     
  2. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 4, 2007

    Posts: 10,034

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    It was as described, I cant be bothered to go back and retype yet again, there are 3900 pages here so you can go look it up.
    It technically failed on the spend one that by rules we are signed up to would have called for it being rerun. For example.

    As it was advisory (as ruled by the courts when the government were trying to deny this) it meant as it was not law making it was in effect able to be lawless ;)

    Sorry didn't relay to part 2. At the time A50 was enacted people were still talking unicorns, sunlit uplands, extra money for the NHS, easiest deals in history etc
    May was also talking a soft Brexit so the MPs could support it.
    Once the reality dawned they started to backtrack, objection has been steadily rising in the HOC
     
  3. Scrutinize

    Soldato

    Joined: Apr 4, 2003

    Posts: 7,368

    Yes the legal framework is in place.

    So is your idea of democratic process the one whereby if the opposition doesn't like the answer you get to cancel the result or re-vote?
     
  4. Harlequin

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 17, 2004

    Posts: 3,068

    Location: Eastbourne , East Sussex.


    I very much understand multi versions, of what you would understand democracy to be. I suggest reading Models of Democracy by David Held so you can educate yourself. At that point, you will then understand my point.
     
  5. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 9,560

    I am beginning to think that you are a Russian troll. Your reply to valid points is the usual deflection. Do you even understand the situation?
    Changing PM changes little, the poisoned chalice has just been handed on. Brexit PM means nothing except Brexiteers lose another excuse why they cannot get the 'perfect Brexit'
    Parliament will never allow a No Deal Brexit and as May found out they can do something about it.
    The game, as you put it is far from up, changing PM changes almost nothing. Your comprehension is severely lacking.
     
  6. Freakbro

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 29, 2010

    Posts: 15,653

    Location: Lincs

    If they want to they can since the referendum was non-binding.

    Sure, it'll cause fall out but it depends on which the MPs decide will cause less fallout, No Deal or Revoke. Tbh, they are in a lose/lose situation if they get to that point. They lose half the countries support whatever they decide. Hence why leaving with a deal is the only sensible option.

    And the hyperbole about the end of democracy is only when you don't acknowledge we have a representative democracy and MPs have 3 duties, to the people, their party and the country and not a direct democracy. And if they think that revoke is what's best for the country, they are perfectly entitled to choose that option.

    You can protest by voting them out at the next GE.
     
  7. matt100

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 31, 2004

    Posts: 11,545

    Location: Salisbury

    It's like talking to a wall...

    What happened to pragmatism and dealing with reality?

    I'll go next... hey brextards, it's awesome that brexit is now over as people can see what a terrible mistake it's all been and the tide of popular opinion has turned against you. I can't wait for the next PM to revoke article 50 once and for all. We win!
     
  8. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 4, 2007

    Posts: 10,034

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    Apparently if Boris wins he is going to go and try and renegotiate the backstop. Interesting as that would seem to imply something close to Mays deal?
    If he was basically scrapping the whole deal then surely he would say that.
    The EU will of course say NON! and apparently his come back to that is we will just leave then.

    So my expectation on Boris winning, failing to negotiate is that somewhere late october we will be in the crash out or revoke position, with no extension as the EU have told Boris to go away.
     
  9. matt100

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 31, 2004

    Posts: 11,545

    Location: Salisbury

    It's an affront to democracy!
    • Process kicked off by PM without mandate
    • Majority lost and sold to DUP
    • Wanted to oust the leader because they didn't like the outcome
    • Wanted to change the process because they didn't like the fact they couldn't oust the leader
    • Vote against the deal 3 times
    • Oust the leader leading to our next PM without mandate
    • Elect a truckload of lunatics to cream £100k a year for literally refusing to do anything
    • Would sell their mums to get "what 17.4m people want" whilst completely ignoring 16m+ other people who didn't want this
    No you can't have another referendum and we're not having a GE because it would be undemocratic

    Trolololok
     
  10. Scrutinize

    Soldato

    Joined: Apr 4, 2003

    Posts: 7,368

    Do you understand the sentiment of the democratic process for the people who voted leave?

    Do you understand democracy?

    If it was democratically advisory, parliament should never have triggered article 50. They made that decision, thus made the results of the referendum an accepted democratic process.
     
  11. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 22,480

    The EU will tell him before he even bothers. It’s been restated literally dozens of times by the Irish and EU leadership that it won’t be touched.

    The EU would have to be mentally delinquent to ignore how many times they’ve said as much and still meet with this buffoon.
     
  12. Murphy

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 3,092

    What and admit they allowed, through their own inaction's, criminals and foreign nations to subvert democracy?
     
  13. Freakbro

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 29, 2010

    Posts: 15,653

    Location: Lincs

    Don't forget, Boris wrote both those speeches, for Leave and Remain and was unsure until the last minute which way he was going to go.

    He might have been making all the tough Brexit talk while manoeuvring these last couple of years, but I'm not sure he's a No Deal merchant like, say Raab.
     
  14. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 9,560

    You are failing to grasp the situation

    Parliament is sovereign, it can do what the **** it likes(possibly subject to legal challenge if it contravenes other laws)

    The Referendum was legally advisory and if Parliament wanted could be ignored.
     
  15. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 4, 2007

    Posts: 10,034

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    I am not sure if you are struggling to understand how this has all played out or just acting dumb here.

    It was advisory, thats fact
    When A50 legislation was proposed it was voted through
    When A50 legislation was enacted Brexit was undefined
    When Brexit was finally defined it was a turd
    No amount of negotiating could turn the turd into a unicorn
    The turd was voted down 3 times, but ultimately the ones stopping it were the hard core Brexiteers
    When trying to play the crash out card May ended up with the MPs forcing her to go to the EU to act for an extension
    We are now back to holding, with the majority of MPs still trying to enact Brexit, but no one able to get enough of them to agree what that actually means
     
  16. Harlequin

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 17, 2004

    Posts: 3,068

    Location: Eastbourne , East Sussex.


    Please go and read Max Weber and Joseph Schumpeter
     
  17. Freakbro

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 29, 2010

    Posts: 15,653

    Location: Lincs

    The thing was, May promised the House certain outcomes of Brexit to get the agreement to enact A.50 - such as close ties, free access to the Single Market without FoM etc - back when people still believed in unicorns and rainbows.

    So now, when those promises haven't materialised and MPs are facing down the barrel of a No Deal gun, that's why there is no support in Parliament for it, even though they agreed to invoke A.50 two years ago.

    Opinions change when more information is known, that's just normal and totally within the remit of 'democracy'
     
  18. Undesirable

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 22, 2004

    Posts: 1,160

    Yes, they will, won't they? Funny how easy it is to guess the EUs position; just say no to everything. I'm sure it's what Remain is counting on, just as much as it is Leave.
     
  19. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 4, 2007

    Posts: 10,034

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    But they dont
    They so no to unreasonable
    They say yes to reasonable as demonstrated by the WA
     
  20. Evangelion

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 29, 2007

    Posts: 23,698

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    Johnson is currently the front runner. A No Deal Brexit is now almost certain.
     
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