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Brexit Discussion

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by FrenchTart, Sep 11, 2016.

  1. JeditOjanen

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 7, 2011

    Posts: 4,123

    I can't see embedded tweets. Is that the Dan Snow thing?
     
  2. garnett

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 25, 2008

    Posts: 4,014

    Yes, it is.

    Now that I've posted it, I'm a bit dubious too. He's fairly high profile, and seems fairly sincere, (which is why I posted it) but it seems too far-fetched not to have just been a mistake in his part...

    Also - why can't you see embedded Tweets? It's by far the most convenient way of posting stuff to the forums!?
     
  3. Kreeeee

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Jul 13, 2004

    Posts: 41,274

    Location: /* */

    They're full of tracking rubbish so ad blockers and script blockers tend to block them.
     
  4. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 12,196

    I block everything from sites like twitter and facebook. As in the whole domain at router level :p

    Been doing it since way before it was confirmed that they can't be trusted.
     
  5. Dj_Jestar

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 28,427

    Location: Back in East London

    I prefer threadreaderapp.com for twitter threads. Give it a try :)
     
  6. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Aug 4, 2007

    Posts: 8,365

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    There was an interesting bit on BBC News channel Sunday night at 9.30 (probably on iplayer) about the rise of the far right across Europe.
    Was quite interesting it mimics the UK pretty well.

    The German bit was quite interesting. There was an AFD guy on there however, typically German. When he was told some of what had been spread was incorrect he said they he would need to look at the statistics, not what our frothers would do and go its much be right blah blah.

    A lot was focused on Hungary.
     
  7. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 12,196

    The rise of AFD in Germany is mostly the consequences of Merkel's actions.
     
  8. StarShock

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Nov 6, 2005

    Posts: 1,380

    I've never been wholly convinced by that line of reasoning "I disagree with some of the government's policies, so I just had to become a racist"

    Obviously this is an exaggeration, but I do think that most of the people who join these groups were just looking for an excuse.
     
  9. a1ex2001

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 14, 2005

    Posts: 11,205

    Location: Here and There...

    What her policies have done is given a voice and a platform to the right, there is a very clear group for them to shout about and blame for all the countries ills. People inevitably rally to this as it is much easier to assume all your problems are someone else's fault than it is to look at yourself and what you could do differently. History is full of extreme leaders using this exact tactic and it works again and again.
     
  10. D.P.

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 29,965


    I also read this morning that the far-right party in Austria has collapsed because, surprise surprise, there was video evidence of them hiding foreign donations including a Russian Oligarch.

    Putin really has ran amok in Europe.
     
  11. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 12,196

    Cause and effect. She ****** people off enough that they voted for the opposite.
     
  12. FortuitousFluke

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 7, 2011

    Posts: 3,421

    Location: Cambridgeshire

    Isn't that a bit of a flawed argument though? Surely the only way to avoid giving a platform to the right is to pander to them in the first place? You could argue that the only way to really "win" is to play the middle ground (probably a viable strategy for the last 3 decades or so but potentially less viable these days) but then you end up beating all of the principles out of politics.
     
  13. Azza

    Caporegime

    Joined: Dec 6, 2005

    Posts: 34,355

    Location: Birmingham

     
  14. Mr C

    Hitman

    Joined: Sep 8, 2006

    Posts: 544

    I stumbled upon an interesting article the other day that might have been quite a reasonable cause of this far right surging over the last few years:

    https://www.wired.co.uk/article/eu-elections-2019-fake-news-russia

    Despite the link name, it is quite the opposite, it reckons that the majority of stories shared by Russian influencers are indeed not fake news but reputable factually correct stories.

    I guess that coupled with the segmentation of social groups on media sites where like minds group together and share similar stories ad-nauseum. This is likely to be the biggest cause to the uprising of not only the far-right anti-globalist nationalistic movement but also the far left anti-establishment that believes every private company is out to harvest peoples organs for profit.

    When i see things this way, personally i don't see a positive future. People are only going to become more divided, the middle ground slowly eroding to two equally opposed groups fed narrative following news stories. Each side able to wheel out an ever increasing list of factually correct news stories about corrupt politicians, Muslim terrorist attacks and tax-dodging billionaires.

    I'm not sure of a solution and where i actually believed Trump and Brexit would show the world what happens when poor decisions are made (and when extremists are given the keys to the car). To help us return to a more moderate version of politics with progressive policy and falling inequality. I fear it has only emboldened the extremes.

    Just look at this thread, the trump thread, the brexit party thread etc.. It has really over the last few days descended into nothing more than two opposite sides parroting news stories and snarky comments. I find it boring, unhelpful and feel that if anything these threads have gotten far worse than they were years ago.
     
  15. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 17,809

    Yeah, what a great way to do things....!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48334109
     
  16. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 8,652

    Is that not the MO of this incompetent Govt. Open border in NI, all done by systems. Details?
    Grayling?
    Privatisation of the Probation service. Ideologically driven but details of how it would work in practise? So screwed up the taxpayer has to pay for the mess. Trouble is there are less trained staff now so another mess in the offing.
     
  17. Rilot

    Don

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 19,432

    Location: Wargrave, UK

    I find it utterly incredible that anyone in government would even suggest doing things that way. If I did that with a project at work I'd be fired.
     
  18. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 18,691

    Eh no, it’s descended into that because one side won’t back up their claims with evidence, because there isn’t any.
     
  19. ltron

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Aug 30, 2014

    Posts: 1,300

    Even if you believe that Merkel's actions were wrong then the old maxims of 'two wrongs don't make a right' and taking personal responsibility for your own actions without blaming others apply here.
     
  20. matt100

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 31, 2004

    Posts: 11,148

    Location: Salisbury

    Lol 100%

    As I've said a few times in this thread I have to do commercial negotiations over things that are obviously significantly less important than Brexit and if I'd conducted myself like we have at least in public I'd be fired.

    All this talk of leverage and threats and walking away and "winning" and "losing" makes it painfully obvious these people think they're in game of thrones and have never negotiated anything of substance in their lives.