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Brexit Discussion

Discussion in 'SC Archive' started by FrenchTart, Sep 11, 2016.

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  1. Undesirable

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 22, 2004

    Posts: 1,158

    Just say no to everything reasonable and unreasonable now the only thing on the table is the unreasonable poorly-negotiated-on-our-part withdrawal agreement.
     
  2. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 22,441

    It’s literally the minimal that could be written down with our redlines...

    They’ll still push for all contents (bar the time period of still being quasi member) in that deal if we don’t agree to it now, but later when looking at a trade deal. Only we won’t be doing it from position of stability.
     
  3. Scrutinize

    Soldato

    Joined: Apr 4, 2003

    Posts: 7,366

    Parliament triggered article 50. Parliament did this on the outcome of a 'democratic' referendum.

    It was not the voting public, but Parliament who triggered this.

    As my comments above. Parliament triggered article 50.

    The outcome of a no-deal Brexit was always a possibility and legally the default.

    Parliament triggered article 50. They presented this as enacting the will of the people.

    Parliament created the referendum and in proceeding to trigger article 50 further propagated the 'democratic' perception.
     
  4. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 4, 2007

    Posts: 10,016

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    Nonsense
     
  5. Murphy

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 3,061

    No my idea of the democratic process is one where the electorate are well-informed and the law was adhered to.

    We know the electorate were not well-informed because what leaving the EU meant was not defined, in the governments whitepaper, until 8 months after they cast their votes and even when they were it amounted to a paltry 77 pages, compare that to the SNP's whitepaper that was published 10 months before the vote and ran for 670 pages.

    We know laws were broken because leave campaigns have been fined in excess for £800k from two separate organisations (The electoral commission and information commissioner) that they stated would have been higher had the maximum allowable fine been higher, and there's also an ongoing national crime agency investigation because of suspected links to foreign actors.
     
  6. Undesirable

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 22, 2004

    Posts: 1,158

    Why has it been voted down three times then?
     
  7. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 22,441

    Because the brexiteers shifted goal posts about a solar light year from where they said it was.

    Confirmed entirely by the statements some of the erg lot released around vote 2 and 3, backpedaling as far as possible.

    The brexiteers wont let brexit happen.
     
  8. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 9,548

    As they are sovereign they can do what they want. Being Russian you may not realise that Parliament changes laws that are already in existence when they feel like it.

    You really are getting hung up on the idea that as they triggered Art50 they cannot do anything about it afterwards.
     
  9. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 4, 2007

    Posts: 10,016

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    Yes and?
    Brexit hasn't been cancelled its still got people trying to deliver it.
    We (the majority of the country and the MPs) dont want to leave with no deal. Unfortunately the "easiest deal in history", "no ones talking about no deal", "wouldn't it be nice t be like Norway" types have been proven to be false prophets. The adults have been trying to deliver something whilst performing their elected duty to represent the whole country not the 52% who voted for Brexit
     
  10. Scrutinize

    Soldato

    Joined: Apr 4, 2003

    Posts: 7,366

    If the legality or democratically binding nature of the Brexit vote was in question then Parliament should not have triggered article 50.
     
  11. Murphy

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 3,061

    I'll add incompetence to that.
     
  12. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 4, 2007

    Posts: 10,016

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    No one has invented a time machine
    A lot of Brexiteers were frothing about how long it took to trigger A50 as it was.
    Imagine if the governments first announcement had been "we just need to check for a couple of years that this was not influenced by fraud etc"

    In fact they enacted it, or thought they did, but had to be reigned back in, after losing a court case. (You know the Gine Miller one)
     
  13. Murphy

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 3,061

    Can you imagine the backlash if after holding a referendum politicians stood up and said: Sorry guys but because we were so incompetent and didn't tell you what leaving the EU actually involved, and because we'd not passed sufficiently rigorous laws to prevent illegal over spending, foreign interference, and the harvesting of your personal details we're going to ignore you, sorry for wasting all your time yo.

    And no, we don't have a clue how or when we'll be able to fix democracy.
     
  14. FortuitousFluke

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 7, 2011

    Posts: 3,874

    Location: Cambridgeshire

    Parliament is within its rights to unilaterally revoke article 50 if it so desires. This has been confirmed by the supreme court. Triggering article 50 doesn't automatically make the referendum legally binding, nor does it somehow magically stop parliament from pausing, delaying or stopping the process altogether.

    Stop talking nonsense.
     
  15. Steampunk

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 1, 2013

    Posts: 6,820

    The vote wasn't democratic, as has been pointed out a million times in this thread alone.
     
  16. FortuitousFluke

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 7, 2011

    Posts: 3,874

    Location: Cambridgeshire

    Follow through with something that was decided upon as part of a clearly flawed and undemocratic campaign, or refuse to implement a policy that was decided upon by the public when you assured them you would. Nobody is coming out looking good here and democracy is broken either way, the only choice is the colour of hammer.
     
  17. platypus

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jul 25, 2003

    Posts: 38,976

    Location: Rhône-Alpes+Cambridge

    So just to be clear - parliament exercising its sovereignty (that we supposedly don't have) to revoke article 50 is undemocratic?
     
  18. Scrutinize

    Soldato

    Joined: Apr 4, 2003

    Posts: 7,366

    They triggered it, they haven't revoked it.

    If they are sovereign, why haven't they revoked it?

    At the time of the referendum, what was the leave voter's sentiment?

    Leave at any cost? Just get out?
     
  19. FishFluff

    Soldato

    Joined: Nov 7, 2003

    Posts: 5,212

    Location: Deepest, darkest Leeds

    Where’s there’s a political will there’s a way. If it came to it then the more moderate Tories would back a VONC to bring down their own government before letting us crash out.

    Only complete gullible idiots or people seeking to cash in want a no deal Brexit.
     
  20. Murphy

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 3,061

    True but i suspect the majority of the electorate are not aware how undemocratic the referendum was, most leave supports blow a gasket if you even mention the idea that they didn't know what they voted for.
     
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