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Brexit Discussion

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by FrenchTart, Sep 11, 2016.

  1. FortuitousFluke

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 7, 2011

    Posts: 3,418

    Location: Cambridgeshire

    As a procurement professional I can confirm that the last few years have almost driven me to distraction, a bunch of people who have no clue how negotiation works coming out with buzz words and phrases that haven't been considered good practice since the 80's. That's before we get onto the processes that allowed Seaborne Freight to happen.
     
  2. Mr Badger

    Soldato

    Joined: Dec 27, 2009

    Posts: 6,106

    If Brexit was a project in the private sector it would have been killed off long ago. But as it is public money that is being poured into the Brexit pit as politicians put their party and career before the good of the country, then the farce continues.
     
  3. Tony Edwards

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 2,399

    Haha brilliant. I think they see themselves as realists now though. :(
     
  4. Mr Badger

    Soldato

    Joined: Dec 27, 2009

    Posts: 6,106

    It was essential to the myth of Brexit being able to deliver benefits that people didn't question things too closely or indeed apply any scrutiny at all. Detailed plans were not required because it was a game of poker where the UK held all the cards and the EU would fold like a cheap umbrella. And when this all crashed and burned (to the surprise of no one who realised what nonsense this position was) the goalposts moved and revisionism kicked in, so now Brexit was apparently always about crashing out of the EU without a deal.
     
  5. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 18,672

    And always about 100000000 years of pain for eventual gain.
     
  6. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 62,113

    Something I find highly frustrating these days and granted sometimes people need to learn things for themselves - how often in business of late people try to re-introduce ideas and practises, etc. that have been tried and found wanting and not used for a reason, ignore the tried and tested approach, ignore any kind of reasoning, etc. but then don't learn from the failure and try to force it through by seeing what does work as the problem and blocking that to try and force people to use their idea or practise which just results in a huge mess and things not working as efficiently even as they were which often just drags on unresolved with the person eventually leaving the business to get away from the failure but then no one wanting to touch the mess.
     
  7. Six6siX

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 25, 2004

    Posts: 4,722

    Location: Hertfordshire

    Yep I see this often too. There are often a lot of middle and senior management types who float around and think they have a great idea to do something differently. Problem is, they've not been around long enough to realise that it's already been tried and failed and they can't see why - they don't know (or want to know) enough about the company to understand why. When they inevitably fail, they move on to their next role before taking responsibility for the failure. They are subsequently replaced by the next wave of middle and senior management and the process repeats. The most successful companies are always the ones which learn from their mistakes, don't repeat history and make logical business and process decisions based on facts and figures rather than the ideological whims and fancies of a self serving leadership. A bit like politics I guess.
     
  8. No1newts

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 24, 2009

    Posts: 19,301

    Location: North East

    Farage got a milkshake in Newcastle, well done Newcastle. The fact that political debate in this country is now do e by milkshake is rather depressing but we can't pretend he didn't deserve it :p
     
  9. thenewoc

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 9, 2012

    Posts: 4,445

    Location: West Sussex, England

    Another remainer seeing the light, people realising that The Brexit Party is the one campaigning for democracy...

     
  10. Vern1961

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 29, 2007

    Posts: 2,635

    Location: Swindon UK

    Stumbled across this purely by accident (BBC hiding it on the Politics page rather than Home Page). Sums up the sorry state of the Brexit debacle (regardless of your standpoint) when snakeoil pitches such as this are put forward to get the WA through Parliament. Why can't the politicians have the stones to come clean and admit the whole thing was a horrible mistake which cannot be implemented in an acceptable form, revoke A50 and have a GE. At that point, as I've said before in this thread, if any party is brave enough to revive the idea in their manifesto they are free to do so.

    Sadly I just think the whole thing will stumble blindly on into the summer recess - even if the LibDems and Unity wipe the floor in the EU elections, it will be dismissed in the same way as the march and petition with politicians refusing to concede views might actually have changed over the passage of three years and they are flogging an out of date lame horse...
     
  11. redeye

    Gangster

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 399

    Location: Leipzig, Germany

    It's much more complex than just a vote against Merkel. Like most things, there is more to it. Look at the area in Germany where AFD have the strongest support - it's the East, states like Saxony and Thuringia. These area's have literally zero immigration, were left behind massively until the wall fell and are only just starting to see inward investment. They see different coloured people for the first time, and they are scared of what they don't know. I live here, and I hear and see it every day.

    Some are genuinely racist. They live in their little villages in the middle of nowhere, have small meetings and then go to large towns to protest. Others are as I just said, scared of the unknown. The leaders are very nasty people and many have ties to Nazi's. Not your garden variety type, but proper Nazi's with all the views and violence that go with it.
     
  12. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 17,782

    Not too dissimilar from areas with high migration voting in favour of remain, and area's with hardly any migrants, voting to leave.

    Perception vs reality.
     
  13. redeye

    Gangster

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 399

    Location: Leipzig, Germany

    Exactly.

    You can add in to that the 'I've seen what immigration does and I don't want it' type people, but it's not all negative.

    Those that voted leave in areas that generally have much lower levels of immigration will be hardest hit if a hard Brexit happens.
     
  14. thenewoc

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 9, 2012

    Posts: 4,445

    Location: West Sussex, England

    Hardly surprising that areas with high migration aren't so likely to vote for leave since those areas are typically more aligned to the Labour party. It's also a poor comparison to draw with people's registered address to vote since plenty of people commute into cities where some of the highest levels of migration are.
     
  15. RedvGreen

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 2, 2009

    Posts: 3,501

    Location: Midlands

    Where is the democracy in a vote that narrowly won (by 3.7%), funded by foreign investors (Bannon, Putin etc) via Patsies like Arron Banks, based on lies and rhetoric designed to rile up those who are susceptible to it via a very underhand and frankly scary amount of social engineering and intelligence gathering by Cambridge Analytica, which is proclaimed as a majority, yet wouldn't even fit any semblance of a unanimous result in any other country, yet is reinforced by 1000 new Twitter and Facebook accounts on a daily basis which are banned within months by joint work between Facebook and the Government's own services.

    If it was a fair campaign and we were actually in with a chance of retaining single market and the EU staff weren't being villified and exile by British Racists, then I'd be more welcoming of it, but currently it is just all hot air, toxic destructive and devolving hot air.

    You have to sometimes look beyond what someone says, and look at what they do. If a BXP candidate comes forth and says he is changing his mind, you really have to be a few screws short of toolkit to believe the very basic enlightenment psychology involved here.
     
  16. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 8,644

    More importantly you have to look at the background of the people bearing the message.
     
  17. garnett

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 25, 2008

    Posts: 4,010

    Lol. So the Brexit Party has as an MEP candidate someone who wants to Remain!?

    (Or, are you seeking to rely on evidence that people have changed their minds on Brexit in the last 3 years?)

    Which is it, because either way, it makes you look silly.
     
  18. Harlequin

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 17, 2004

    Posts: 2,931

    Location: Eastbourne , East Sussex.


    The same Clare Fox who supports pedofiles and doesn't believe ISIS videos lead to killing?
     
  19. DarkHorizon472

    Mobster

    Joined: May 16, 2007

    Posts: 2,688

    So what you are suggesting is voting Labour stops people having strong but unfounded views on migration.
     
  20. matt100

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 31, 2004

    Posts: 11,144

    Location: Salisbury

    The one where democracy is a winner takes all game where the losers have to do what the winners say even if it bears no resemblance to what was offered in exchange for your vote (£350m for the NHS vs privatise it) and flies int he face of common sense?

    That one? :)

    Hang on, I can feel someone about to call me feral again lol