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Brexit Discussion

Discussion in 'SC Archive' started by FrenchTart, Sep 11, 2016.

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  1. Scrutinize

    Soldato

    Joined: Apr 4, 2003

    Posts: 7,320

    But they triggered it and set out the timeframe for exit? Whilst that date has been extended the process is definitive, is it not?

    Then why haven't they revoked article 50 already?

    If they revoke article 50 on the basis of holding a new referendum or if they pause to hold a new referendum, is there a risk that the majority will still vote leave?
     
  2. Stretch

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 14, 2004

    Posts: 11,540

    Location: Cambridge

    Unless you're one of the many pro leave politicians who regularly say deal X is worse than staying in the EU.
     
  3. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 9,315

    Austerity is the Tory project. Is this the new excuse? Tory austerity was caused by the EU?
     
  4. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 13,799

    We aren't the only ones "experiencing" austerity in the EU. Austerity is an EU policy atm.
     
  5. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 9,315

    Triggering it just means they will start negotiations on the type of exit, nothing more. It did not set out the timeframe for exit merely the mechanism for the negotiations. The timeframe for exit can be extended, as has already been shown. As with any political process it is not definite if the politicians do not want to make it definite.
     
  6. RedvGreen

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 2, 2009

    Posts: 3,871

    Location: Midlands

    Xenophobia was predominantly associated with several distinct areas in society, it stems from fear and jealousy. Austerity did absolutely nothing to help this, and made it worse; not the EU.
     
  7. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 9,315

    Other countries like Germany are using it but it is definitely not EU policy because economic policy is and always has been in the hand of the nation states.

    You have been on here before trying to claim that the EU want to do it in the future so by your own words they are not doing it now.
     
  8. FortuitousFluke

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 7, 2011

    Posts: 3,767

    Location: Cambridgeshire

    Of course there is, and then they have an updated mandate for whatever the other specific brexit option is.
     
  9. Steampunk

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 1, 2013

    Posts: 6,645

    A perfect storm. The Tories put their party before the country, and were trying to hold things together in the face of Farage, while being fearful of losing power. Some like the ERG and Farage headbangers see it as a way of making more money, shorting against the pound, turning the UK into a tax haven, privatising the NHS, etc.

    Labour having gone hard left with Corbyn see this as an opportunity to get into power and invoke their dream of a socialist worker's utopia without the oversight of the EU to stop them renationalising everything and taxing anyone who has more than they need.

    Both parties are trying to sit on the fence (particularly Labour) for fear of losing voters as soon as they come out either in favour or against Brexit. They are scared of their own voters, and won't commit. Going back for a second referendum seems to be the only way out, as it means both parties can blame revocation of A50 on the "will of the people".
     
  10. Cern

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 3, 2008

    Posts: 3,435

    Location: London

    This is absolute garbage. The EU do not control national economic policy or public spending in any member countries. Yes, austerity measures have been implemented in a number of other EU countries affected by the 2008 financial crisis, but these measures are NOT implemented by or demanded by the EU, it has been implemented by national governments.
     
  11. Mr Badger

    Soldato

    Joined: Dec 27, 2009

    Posts: 6,526

    Why are you asking me that again? I already gave you an answer only a page or so back:

     
  12. FishFluff

    Soldato

    Joined: Nov 7, 2003

    Posts: 5,138

    Location: Deepest, darkest Leeds

    Sorry but that’s a ******** answer. There’s several different leave scenarios. There was only one remain scenario.
     
  13. garnett

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 25, 2008

    Posts: 4,803

    And then that sentiment got betrayed by the very same people who sold them the impossible fantasy.

    What a funny turn of events, eh? Bet you can't comprehend how that could happen.
     
  14. chrismscotland

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 16, 2009

    Posts: 2,411

    I will say that Eurozone countries are under a lot of pressure to enact austerity policies if their budget is in a position to need it, obviously we aren’t as we’re not in the Euro.

    It’s ******** to suggest that measures in Greece, Ireland, Spain and Portugal have not been demanded by the EU.
     
  15. arknor

    Caporegime

    Joined: Nov 22, 2005

    Posts: 35,597

    Location: Newcastle/Zurich

    tory party strong and stable.

    last 2 party leaders resigned......

    should never have been a brexit vote
     
  16. The_Abyss

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 15, 2007

    Posts: 11,767

    Location: Ipswich / Bodham

    Whilst I don't disagree with the sentiment, the facts need to be brought into perspective a little. Every Conservative leader, since and including Margaret Thatcher, has resigned. That's generally the way that they go - Labour leaders too.
     
  17. Cern

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 3, 2008

    Posts: 3,435

    Location: London

    Difference is, most Labour leaders have stepped down after losing an election, the Tories have turned leaders resigning while actually in government into an artform.
     
  18. The_Abyss

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 15, 2007

    Posts: 11,767

    Location: Ipswich / Bodham

    Yep, I can't deny that based on recent form!
     
  19. Scrutinize

    Soldato

    Joined: Apr 4, 2003

    Posts: 7,320

    My understanding of sentiment from the last few pages.

    Despite the rhetoric; the current stalemate is that a no-deal Brexit, whilst for many being wholly unpalatable, remains the default position.

    To revoke Article 50, Parliament really need there to be no other option legally available, not just an unpalatable one. However, they could still revoke it and live with the consequences.

    Or, political posturing and protectionism aside, the new PM has to provide a credible and blunt position statement leading to a new referendum which either; asks the same question again or one which structures a path to withdraw or remain.

    So ultimately the key questions are; in a new referendum scenario will public support for Brexit have actually increased or would simply revoking article 50 and stopping Brexit have a significant long term impact on Parliament and elected parties?

    The conspiracy theorists would no doubt suggest government surveys have been carried out discretely on a much broader populus demographic than usual and this is suggesting pro Brexit support has increased, hence the desire to avoid a further referendum. After all, the internet groups tend to provide rather limited and biased samples.
     
  20. Stretch

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 14, 2004

    Posts: 11,540

    Location: Cambridge

    The government are unlikely to back a second referendum because it would irrevocably split the Conservative party. It was May's speech earlier in the week opening the possibility of a second ref which was the final straw.

    MPs will string this out for as long as they need knowing that Brexit is highly unlikely without a government majority. That means a a GE.

    May blew Brexit in 2017.

    Boris will face all the same problems May did, if he even makes it that far. As for him saying we leave in October deal or no deal, haven't we heard that all before?

    He's a liar. He can't renegotiate the WA between becoming leader in late July and the 31st of Oct. It's three months.

    Either he leaves without a deal or he asks for an extension.

    I can't see the Party standing by him if he fails to offer a realistic possibility of a negotiated exit.
     
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