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Brexit Discussion

Discussion in 'SC Archive' started by FrenchTart, Sep 11, 2016.

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  1. The_Abyss


    Joined: May 15, 2007

    Posts: 12,309

    Location: Ipswich / Bodham

    If there's no appetite to try and open up the WA then what Boris can do is go to the EU with a long list of changes to the future relationship, not get them and then come back with all the blame being seemingly placed on the EU. That would be enough to justify the no-deal exit, and it seems that the EU is nervous about this approach, although they've had long enough to prepare.

    Boris also has a touch of the Farage about him, in that he's capable of creating some rhetoric that his core supporters can get behind and will come out and vote for, whether entirely truthful or not. Corbyn's appeal is more focussed and limited. I don't think it will take too much success on a number of small issues for him to be confident to call an election. Labour can't oppose an election being called now either, as it is their primary policy. If Boris gets a little momentum then it is curtains for the Brexit Party - he just needs to be hardline on a few key points and only the mental far right and racists will stay with the Brexit Party, just as happened with UKIP.

    If all the above sounds positive, I didn't intend it to be. Johnson is a dangerously intelligent fool. I think that the real concern is that the likes of Johnson, Farage and Corbyn to some extent thrive in the current instability and actually don't want it to end. The same with Sturgeon - without a cause to rail against, her actual record in government is poor. There's a vested interest in maintaining uncertainty and instability.
  2. Litmoose


    Joined: Dec 16, 2008

    Posts: 366

    I'm pretty sure if Johnson gets in he'll go hardcore no deal, the one thing he doesnt need backing from parliment for. Just simply run down the clock. It'll also make Brexit party pretty much irrlevent and win lots of support back.

    I've been sure from day 1. If we ever leave without a deal, ironically it'll be down to the remain parliment rejecting everything apart from the one thing they cant, the default postition they agreed to impliment.
    Last edited: May 25, 2019
  3. Sankari


    Joined: Dec 29, 2007

    Posts: 24,391

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    ^^ This. And it's my worst fear.
  4. Rotty


    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 40,160

    Location: Notts

    there's a good chance that will be the outcome
  5. Murphy


    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 3,402

    So we'd be happy with joining the EEA, like Norway? Because that's a version of leaving the EU, unfortunately it would mean we'd still be subject to ECJ jurisdiction, we'd still have freedom of movement, couldn't do our own trade deals, still have to contribute to the EU budget, and still have to take EU rules.
    If it's an EU policy then i assume you can point to the specific policy?
    That's when some conservative MPs (hopefully) go for the nuclear option, a VONC in their own party.
    Last edited: May 25, 2019
  6. a1ex2001


    Joined: Mar 14, 2005

    Posts: 12,340

    Location: Here and There...

    It’s not remain backing MP’s that have prevented brexit it is the nutjobs in the ERG if they had backed the deal we would already have left and be negotiating our future relationship.

    Parliament has shown time and again that it won’t allow a no deal brexit and that won’t change just because Boris is PM also if he is as clever as everyone says he won’t allow it as the last thing he wants is to replace TM as the worst PM in history only three months after taking office!
  7. garnett


    Joined: Mar 25, 2008

    Posts: 5,841

    I think that a VONC in Boris and his "maverick" approach will be far more palatable than it was to contemplate for a more "mainstream Conservative" PM from the centre of the party like May.

    I don't think someone like Dominic Greive would think twice to be honest. And it would be entirely within his clear set of ethics. Then you'd have that significant number who'd be willing to do it just to shaft Boris because they dislike him.
  8. platypus


    Joined: Jul 25, 2003

    Posts: 38,980

    Location: Rhône-Alpes+Cambridge

    We have a 5 year debate, should we get rid of that as well?
  9. Murphy


    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 3,402

    Don't forget the DUP, they were brought in because the Conservatives lost their majority, we would've already left the EU if the entire Conservative party and the DUP voter in favor of May's deal.

    In a FPTP system the winner takes it all so blaming the opposition is just a cop-out.
  10. StarShock

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Nov 6, 2005

    Posts: 1,751

    I think its safe to say that no matter which side of the brexit divide you fall, no one in England is going to be voting for the DUP any time soon after this mess :p

    It really is shocking exactly how much clout the DUP were given by May in her desperate attempt to maintain power. The DUP got less than 1% of the general vote yet were seemingly able to dictate terms. Its just another example of how broken the current system seems to be :(
  11. Mr Jack


    Joined: May 19, 2004

    Posts: 18,007

    Location: Kiel, Germany

    The power of the DUP also demonstrates how pathetic the Lib Dems really were in coalition.
  12. chrcoluk


    Joined: Feb 27, 2015

    Posts: 4,216

    why would it take 6 months? just print the voting slips, arrange for voting stations to be manned and its done. Scrap the campaigning stage since its all dodgy anyway full of lies.
  13. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 47,689

    Location: Plymouth

    Not really, the parliamentary arithmetic is different, may needs pretty much every dup mp on board to win a division, Cameron only needed a few of the 60 or so lib Dems to agree with him.
  14. chrcoluk


    Joined: Feb 27, 2015

    Posts: 4,216

    what is the national interest?
  15. Mr Jack


    Joined: May 19, 2004

    Posts: 18,007

    Location: Kiel, Germany

    May had 11 more MPs than Cameron after the election.
  16. chrcoluk


    Joined: Feb 27, 2015

    Posts: 4,216

    We havent even followed democratic guidelines.

    We had a dodgy referendum where the slightly winning vote was fueled by lies.

    We have had no confirmation vote which is standard practice in other democratic countries.

    Not to mention the vote is over 3 years old and out of date now.
  17. chrcoluk


    Joined: Feb 27, 2015

    Posts: 4,216

    Me and my dad are #1. my mother and one of my sisters #2.
  18. do_ron_ron


    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 9,863

    To do what is best for the British public and business or not cause harm.
  19. chrismscotland


    Joined: Jul 16, 2009

    Posts: 2,547

    It was a bit different for the Lib Dem’s though, they had an agreed Coalition agreement and shared policy plan for the 5 year term, along with physically being in “The Government”.

    They got what they wanted up front) electoral reform referendum), although they could easily have insisted on more but didn’t seem to appreciate the leverage they had over the Tories.

    In hindsight they would probably have fared better in 2015 if they had broke up the Coalition with a year to go until the election and been able to reestablish their separate identity a bit more.
  20. RedvGreen


    Joined: Dec 2, 2009

    Posts: 3,915

    Location: Midlands

    On the subject of Brexit and the DUP, are they still bound by their agreement despite it being made under another PM?

    Also, just to reiterate, what happens to the Irish border issue in the event of a no Deal crash out?

    Finally, how is WTO still being branded as this super-amazing option? Is it not the case that Russia and a couple ex-soviet nations veto’d our ambitions for WTO? So we would be in the same basket as most third world nations?
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