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Brexit Discussion

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by FrenchTart, Sep 11, 2016.

  1. Tony Edwards

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 2,418

    In fairness it is the Tories incompetence that has lead to brexit being shown to be such a shambles. If they hadnt been so arrogant them we might have actualy left by now.
     
  2. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Aug 4, 2007

    Posts: 8,365

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    hes probably right

    They would have gone into administration in April ;)
     
  3. Tony Edwards

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 2,418

  4. thenewoc

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 9, 2012

    Posts: 4,451

    Location: West Sussex, England

    Leaving alone can't stop inefficient businesses that can't compete on the world stage no. However, a stronger Brexit negotiation should have delivered a WTO Brexit sooner once the EU had refused a satisfactory WA. No sense agreeing to a WA with the EU which is so unpalatable that it can't be supported by UK Parliament.
     
  5. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 8,652

    Congratulations, you have just discovered politicians do not do what the people always want. At least you have learned something.

    Your second sentence betrays your lack of knowledge of the complexity of the task, something that will not change with a change of Tory leader.
     
  6. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 8,652

  7. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Aug 4, 2007

    Posts: 8,365

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    I wouldn't say incompetence. This was clearly never going to be easy. No one, let me repeat that, no one has spelled out anything approaching a plan. The best we have from anyone is sound bites.

    Where it all went incredibly wrong was :
    1) Triggering A50 with no plan
    2) Saying the Tories could deal with it and sticking heads in sand all along. With a wafer thin majority (if you include the C&S agreement) pretty much everything was doomed to fail without cross party negotiation.
    3) TM. Particularly in creating her definition of red lines and saying they must be stuck to. She was and remains a terrible person to try to lead this, she is just too rigid and unbending.
     
  8. thenewoc

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 9, 2012

    Posts: 4,451

    Location: West Sussex, England

    Are you denying that Gordon Brown sold off half the UK's gold reserves at rock bottom prices then?
     
  9. thenewoc

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 9, 2012

    Posts: 4,451

    Location: West Sussex, England

    I don't vote for an MP to copy what some other country is doing, I expect them to have their own brain.
     
  10. Tony Edwards

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 2,418

    You need to look at the reasons why it was done and then go back and look at all the times similar things where done. Its not like he was ripped off. He got the going value and then reinvested it.

    How you can stand by brexit and at the say time have a go at Brown for selling gold at the going price is in itself priceless.
     
  11. inogen

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 19, 2009

    Posts: 3,140

    Just been having a cursory look at the European election results over the last 20 years or so for the region I live in (East Midlands).

    Interesting to see how the BNP vote has diminished. From over 100k in 2009 to 18k in 2014. There's no candidate this election. Funny how the UKIP vote has increased by similar amounts each time. Not like UKIP are racists or anything.
     
  12. matt100

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 31, 2004

    Posts: 11,148

    Location: Salisbury

    Did you even read the content of the link?

    The content that totally discredits the point you're fumbling to make? The bit where it talks about fantasy land losses, the fact we sold half our reserve in 1970 and the bit where it estimates the actual "loss" as about £1bn which is 1% of 1 years NHS budget?

    OMG lol.

    I don't personally have much of a view, it certainly seems like a bad thing to have done but the equivalence of that vs someone who wants to tear apart the NHS and turn into something insurance based where the closest evidence you've got from the states for example is that this forces people into poor health, early death and health based bankruptcy is mental.

    Clutchy clutchy straw!
     
  13. thenewoc

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 9, 2012

    Posts: 4,451

    Location: West Sussex, England

    As has been said about a million times you can't create a plan in isolation so the only way that plan would have anything at all meaningful in it was after negotiations began which couldn't begin until after Art.50 was triggered.

    The biggest mistake was the Tories calling for a GE and then the british public thinking they were being clever by sticking it to the Tories by voting Labour to frustrate the whole process.

    TM was correct in establishing her red lines but incorrect in not sticking to them.
     
  14. Irish_Tom

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 12,040

    Quite. That was going to be my next post. :)

    Do you not think that our continued membership of the EU without the uncertainty of Brexit may have put them in a stronger position to compete on the world stage?

    All trading on WTO terms would have done is exacerbate the problem and bring about a quicker collapse.
     
  15. matt100

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 31, 2004

    Posts: 11,148

    Location: Salisbury

    And now the UKIP vote will collapse and be replaced with the Brexit Party...

    Like the post earlier, something like "I disagree with European federalism and that's what turned me racist".. ooooookay...

    And some will get upset about the term.. all I can think is if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and can't shut up about muslims then it's a racist.
     
  16. inogen

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 19, 2009

    Posts: 3,140

    She called for a GE because she wanted a bigger majority to get contentious legislation through parliament. The public didn't give it to her.
     
  17. matt100

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 31, 2004

    Posts: 11,148

    Location: Salisbury

    Just going to get in before someone mentions the fact that being in the EU blocks state aid...

    Like obviously the tories are all about state aid.. but yeah fine, the fact they can't because of the EU.. lets use that.
     
  18. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 17,820

    When we sold off Gold, the price had been roughly the same for 10 years. Announcing the auction itself (which obviously you have to do) drove it down by a further 10%

    It was only a few years after that, that it started rising.

    Given the data at the time, it wasn't a reckless thing to do

    [​IMG]
     
  19. thenewoc

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 9, 2012

    Posts: 4,451

    Location: West Sussex, England


    So you're denying that the article shows that between July 1999 and March 2002 Gordon Brown's government sold 395 tonnes of UK gold or approx. 58% of the government's total reserves at rock bottom prices?
     
  20. inogen

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 19, 2009

    Posts: 3,140

    Aye, I'm not actually racist, but I want a lot of what BNP voters want... is another.