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Brexit Discussion

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by FrenchTart, Sep 11, 2016.

  1. Tony Edwards

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 2,408

    Well let me start of by saying brexit is ******** to quote the Libdems.

    At the time there was a fairly large backing in the HOC for brexit to go ahead. If the Tories had started the negotiations in good faith and sorted out a deal fairly quickly the majority of the house would have voted for it.

    It was only as time went on and everyone (except brexiters) saw how utterly incompetent they were, did people really start to question things. So in summory they had a small window of opportunity to get it past the HOC. They blew it.

    Now if I was a CT nut or a brexiter I would look at that as May the remainer doing it on purpose. Where as I look at it as the Tories are just massivly incompetent.
     
  2. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Aug 4, 2007

    Posts: 8,365

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    Lol. You absolutely DO create plans in isolation. "“No battle plan survives first contact with the enemy.”" Is a well known quote.

    When I do most of the significant things at work it starts with a plan. This is then refined, pros and cons taken into account. Decisions reviewed and contingencies drawn up.

    Everything of any consequence starts with a plan for logical and reasoned people. E.g. Whats a project plan?, oh yes what you expect to do, and when in order to achieve an outcome. It will highly likely miss things and have to be amended etc.

    I did exactly what you say, having resigned as a Tory party member, I voted Labour, the Tories were already messing it up, and paying far too much attention to the extreme right of their party.

    Her red lines are practically the whole problem. They shaped and caused most of the issues with the withdrawl agreement, they caused the divisions in her own party, and made the how outcome of a managed exit far less likely.
     
  3. thenewoc

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 9, 2012

    Posts: 4,448

    Location: West Sussex, England

    No it was just moronic of the highest order and completely unnecessary.
     
  4. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Aug 4, 2007

    Posts: 8,365

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    May isnt really a remainer, and lot of the things she is pushing for were her wet dream anyway. Shes highly authoritarian by nature.

    Your saying the Tories but your branding the whole of the group of MPs. The majority of them were annoyed with her position, her red lines, her appointing idiots to try to deliver it etc.

    If you replaced May where you wrote Tories it would be hard to disagree. But making out like this had some sort of party behind it is just blatantly wrong.
     
  5. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Aug 4, 2007

    Posts: 8,365

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    What do you think it was used for? Its a long time since we were really gold backed. It was pretty much just sitting in storage doing nothing.
    It was converting assets that were basically low yield to potentially generate a high yield in effect. Timing sucked, that was more luck than anything else.

    The one part of the thing he does stand rightly accused of is the advance warning. The rest is just noise. It matters little if gold for the UK is at £1 a kilo or £1BN a kilo, unless you plan to sell it.
     
  6. FishFluff

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 7, 2003

    Posts: 4,933

    Location: Deepest, darkest Leeds

    Are you going to deny that the £1B he lost pales in comparison to the UK's losses in even the best case Brexit scenario?
     
  7. Tony Edwards

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 2,408

    The reason I say Tories is because I include Davis, JRM, Boris, Leadsom et al.. Their whole plan and actions were hopelesly wrong and I say the Tories because they are wreckers.
     
  8. thenewoc

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 9, 2012

    Posts: 4,448

    Location: West Sussex, England

    The point is you don't sell it at rock bottom prices. Just another example of how useless Labour are with the economy when they've been able to drive it into the ground through wreckless spending and subsequent austerity that they caused.
     
  9. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 17,803

    Just to confirm this point: https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-s-p-idUKKCN1RG0QW

     
  10. chroniclard

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 23, 2014

    Posts: 11,871

    Location: Hertfordshire

    Maybe he should have phoned you up, assume you invested in gold when it was rock bottom?
     
  11. thenewoc

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 9, 2012

    Posts: 4,448

    Location: West Sussex, England

    Your missing the whole point as usual.
     
  12. ColdAsIce

    Mobster

    Joined: May 26, 2006

    Posts: 4,849

    Location: Edinburgh

    The way the Tories have negotiated their Brexit deal absolutely shocking. That Documentary "Brexit behind closed doors" is incredibly revealing. David Davis that barely showed up for talks and wasting so much time. His replacement was just as bad but at least was showing up for weekly talks. You has the chaos of TM agreeing certain aspects of the deal and then having them blow up in her face by the DUP, which she brought on herself by calling that early GE.

    Britain could have shown good faith by 100% guaranteeing the rights of EU citizens currently in the UK. Hundreds of thousands of people working and paying taxes and filling huge gaps in industries that the majority of Brits don't want to do. But no, she basically used peoples lively hoods as bargaining chips with the EU and thankfully the EU stayed strong on core points. May's opinions of EU citizens is very telling. What did she call them? Queue jumpers? Awful leader.

    You have Home Secretary Sajid Javid revealing his whitepaper in how the UK will control immigration going forward. £30,000 minimum salary cap. Please tell me how a nurse/junior doctor/teacher etc etc outside of London can start on a salary of £30,000. Well done UK, well done.

    I'm sure we will see more pointless trips various EU countries before October in which TM can pretend she is working when in reality the EU negotiation team never hear from her.
     
  13. Mason-

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 18, 2010

    Posts: 5,059

    Location: Essex

    Lmao, yeah when a recession devalues currencies which are pegged to performances of economies, getting rid of your investments in tangible assets isn't a reckless thing to do. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
  14. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 17,803

    Were we in a recession in 1999?
     
  15. matt100

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 31, 2004

    Posts: 11,147

    Location: Salisbury

    No, I'm saying as usual you've utterly missed any context.. such as the price had been stable for some time and that regardless of what you think of the man few people ever thought he was a fortune teller so using what happened to the price AFTER it was sold as a stick to hit anyone with is at best disingenuous and at worst just ignorant.

    However the bigger point is it's irrelevant in this context. It's such a small amount of money over all that even if he maxed out the profit at a price he had no idea it would ever get to it would still only equate to 3 months of a single year's NHS budget so to bring that up in the context of selling off the NHS is insane.

    The sort of thing I'm used to hearing from your full on turbo brexit supporter. It's totally obvious you'll just claim up is down and night is day in an effort to defend your glorious brexit (that you can't accurately describe, cost, explain the benefits of or agree amongst yourselves on) to the extent it totally discredits it.

    Fun fact, 3 years ago I was shocked we voted to leave but I assumed we'd get to some sort of consensus sensible view of what leaving meant and how we go about doing it to bring everyone along. I think I've even said in here there's a version I could get on board with, the remain ultras certainly were roughly as rare as your brexit ultra.

    And in the intervening years you guys have acted like spoiled kids, ****** away years blaming every man and his dog for treachery and being saboteurs for daring to question anything and torched any hope of anything that unites us as your position has morphed from "they need us more than we need them" and "we hold all the cards" and even in dear Nigel's case "what's so bad about Norway" to "we always meant we'd jump off the cliff, we all knew that".. not that you seem to care.

    Bravo lol, keep it up! At this rate you'll get an ultra as PM and then lose a VonC and deliver a Labour government.. own goal after own goal after own goal :)
     
  16. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 18,688

    The state of this... A COUNTRY DOES NOT SPECULATE, this discussion is *****.

    Just stop, please. This isn’t like trading on the exchange, just like the country isn’t a bloody household.

    Gordon brown has plenty of other issues, without resorting to this pitiful argument.

    I should note that we still haven’t returned to the level we were at in 2007 before it began, and that austerity was confirmed as a idealogical choice not too long ago, so they can’t be blamed for that either.
     
  17. Mason-

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 18, 2010

    Posts: 5,059

    Location: Essex

    Apologies I thought it happened after 2008. Still seems like a silly thing to do.
     
  18. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Aug 4, 2007

    Posts: 8,365

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    It wasn't rock bottom, it was what at that point was a long term price point.
    And even that said its still pretty much an irrelevance. Sitting on an asset that doesn't really generate any positive benefit is pretty pointless, better to liquidate it and put it to use.
     
  19. Dj_Jestar

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 28,427

    Location: Back in East London

  20. matt100

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 31, 2004

    Posts: 11,147

    Location: Salisbury

    But the crystal ball.. THE CRYSTAL BALL!

    He, individually, on his own and definitely without any advice or input blew £20bn by not checking the crystal ball! :mad:

    *Incidentally I deeply disliked the fella, the fact we've gotten to such nonsensical points around brexit that I feel the need to somehow defend Gordon Brown is insane