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Brexit Discussion

Discussion in 'SC Archive' started by FrenchTart, Sep 11, 2016.

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  1. String

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jan 6, 2013

    Posts: 12,376

  2. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 3,618

    Exactly. As long as it is a coalition with Labour as head and SNP/Libdem there is a massive chance of a second ref being the only option. Where as If it is the Tories with a brexiter as leader and the Brexit Party in coalition we are buggered.
    Yeah Raab comes across as a very horrible person. The Andrew Marr show this morning was the first time I think he hasnt sounded like an insanely intolerant person to me, while still talking utter crap.

    edit: Sorry I have just seen the end of the interview and he didnt manage to not sound like an insanely intolerant person for too long.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2019
  3. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 47,452

    Location: Plymouth

    There is no chance of a coalition as you describe with the current brexit supporting labour leader in place though.

    Corbyn is as much of a brexiteer as people like Rees Mogg...
     
  4. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 3,618

    So you are saying that the two main parties that are calling for a second ref are not going to go into a coalition with the only party that is likely to offer the country a second ref?

    Forget your bias towards Corbyn. A Labour coalition is the most likely chance of a second ref being offered to the country. It wont happen if the Tories get in again.
     
  5. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 47,452

    Location: Plymouth

    I don't believe (as seen in the recent negotiations) that Corbyn will allow or support a referendum. If that was what he wanted, it was on the table already.

    A Labour led coalition might give a slightly higher chance of a referendum than a tory led one at the moment, but it is only slight right now.

    To really push the case, Labour need to lose the centralised controlling, brexit obsessed leadership and then it would be a total shoe in, but until then it is very unlikely, and it is most dishonest to pretend otherwise.
     
  6. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 3,618

    No sorry your whole post was plainly dishonest. Its not even worth breaking down.

    Ill admit though at this time and moment I dont really care about if Corbyn is leader or not. I could quite easily see getting rid of Corbyn being the main call from both SNP and the Libdems if Im honest.
     
  7. Stretch

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 14, 2004

    Posts: 11,567

    Location: Cambridge

    Andrew Marr was enlightening if depressing this morning.

    Rabb qualifying lots of statements with "probably", and that former comments around women and human rights needs to be "taken in context", no plausible explanation about how his post Brexit fire-sale tax cutting policy will not damage public services, education explicitly omitted from even a vague attempt to gloss over the question. The £39bn Brexit windfall was quickly slashed to probably around £25bn once he was pushed on how much he would welch on our European allies. Oh, and there's apparently more money to be found in Whitehall efficiency savings despite almost of 10 years of squeezing the pips.

    On the flip-side, Shami Chakrabarti's interview was probably even worse. The Labour Party strategy seems to be hope that enough Tories back a VoC and bring down the government, making it a choice between WTO and Jeremy Corbyn.

    Fun times.
     
  8. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 3,618

    Yeah Raab is a horrible human being in my opinion. The difference is WTO or a government that is going to start trying to repair everything the Tories have either destroyed are in the proccess are destroying. Leaving it open for Labour to destroy everything else.:p
     
  9. Stretch

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 14, 2004

    Posts: 11,567

    Location: Cambridge

    It's blackmail.
     
  10. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 9,406

    A lot of politicians and your snake oil salesmen seem to think this £39Bn will be given in one go rather than over 60 years. In one go it would be a considerable Govt item but over 60 years it would come under sundry expenses.
     
  11. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 47,452

    Location: Plymouth

    Labour is a brexit party at present, the leadership have been crystal clear on this, as has their manifesto. It is you who is not being honest, either with yourself or with others, about it.
     
  12. kindai

    Soldato

    Joined: Aug 9, 2013

    Posts: 6,501

    Location: Bromsgrove

    The fact Raab is currently second favorite under BoJo is absolutely terrifying.
     
  13. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 47,452

    Location: Plymouth

    All we can hope is that the moderate tories do what they can to mitigate the stupidity.
     
  14. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 3,618

    Well with Tom Watson being the deputy leader and Keir Starmer being the Shadow Brexit Secretary and both calling for a second referendum that isnt crystal clear at all is it.
     
  15. Scrutinize

    Soldato

    Joined: Apr 4, 2003

    Posts: 7,340

    Why do you consider Raab a horrible human being out of interest?

    Corbyn has a strong core of support and still controls the party member majority. The majority of their constituencies voted in support of Brexit to leave (148 to 84).

    Thus if they force and win a GE they will need to deliver on Brexit too. It will just add more delays though.

    What ever happens, the government need to make a decision and deliver it soon.

    Withdraw and live with it. No deal and live with it.
     
  16. ricid

    Gangster

    Joined: Sep 26, 2018

    Posts: 349

    Their leader is still pro brexit though. I see this as a shot across his bows. Or his allotment. Whatever.
     
  17. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 3,618

    Well you could look at his voting record for a start.

    https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24815/dominic_raab/esher_and_walton/divisions?policy=6703
    And then just listen to what he says. As I said in my opinion.

    Corbyn does not control the party membership at all. The membership is probably more remain than the party. No deal can not be an option.
    Well as it stands he is pro delivering the democratic vote of the people during the referendum. While it can be said to be honourable to want to do that it is impractical for the outcome of the country.

    All I can do is listen to those high up in the Labour party from John McDonnell to Watson and Starmmer to give me hope of a second ref, while trying to ignore the others that dont share that view. I am allowed to bury my head in the sand if that is what I wish to do. :D
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2019
  18. RedvGreen

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 2, 2009

    Posts: 3,886

    Location: Midlands

    I follow on Twitter an Oxford Uni Politics Lecturer from Ireland, and she highlighted the scary reality that Raab was Brexit Secretary yet didn’t know about the Chunnel or the Good Friday Agreement.
     
  19. mattyfez

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Apr 12, 2007

    Posts: 9,260

    A no deal brexiter in charge of the Conservatives would be a good thing, it will ensure a successful vote of no confidence, as several prominent tories have hinted today they will vote against their own party if it comes to pass.
    A GE will follow, followed by a hung parliament.
    If that comes to pass, then a second (LEGAL THIS Time) referendum could quite easily pass through the commons to brake the deadlock.

    It's the only way out.
     
  20. ricid

    Gangster

    Joined: Sep 26, 2018

    Posts: 349

    Honestly I think Corbyn has good intentions and is doing what he thinks is right. He has a track record of doing just that regardless of what the rest of the party thinks & is carrying on as he always has. He thinks the EU is a bad thing and we're better off out, so he's doing everything he can to help us leave.

    I also think he's utterly wrong, and if he can't be persuaded he needs to go.
     
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