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Brexit Discussion

Discussion in 'SC Archive' started by FrenchTart, Sep 11, 2016.

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  1. mattyfez

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Apr 12, 2007

    Posts: 9,260

    Nether did BoJo when he was foreign secretary, he wasn't aware of treaties in place between us and our closest neighbour... It was literally his job to be an expert on these things and he had no idea.
     
  2. mattyfez

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Apr 12, 2007

    Posts: 9,260

    I'd agree with that, principals are only good If they make sense, corbyn is just dead wood standing in the way of progress and needs to be gone.
    Someone more modern and pragmatic is needed to lead the Labour Party.
    He keeps banging on about a 'jobs first brexit' without even a hint of irony..
     
  3. Stretch

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 14, 2004

    Posts: 11,566

    Location: Cambridge

    The position of the two most senior members of the party, and official party policy is as clear as mud. There are just to many caveats and too much doublespeak to be taken seriously.

    This is why the "hope enough Tory backbenchers support a VoNC" strategy is utterly deluded. Why would a Tory risk a Corbyn government and his/her job just to get Brexit, possibly with "a customs union" but not the customs union etc etc yawn...

    Until they come out with a bit more conviction Corbyn and McDonnell are Brexiteers. It's time Labour party members faced up to this.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2019
  4. Scrutinize

    Soldato

    Joined: Apr 4, 2003

    Posts: 7,340

    Are you sure there is the confidence that a second referendum giving a different answer to the first?

    If they lost again, it would mean a certain no deal.
     
  5. ic1male

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 28, 2003

    Posts: 26,179

    Location: Westchestershire

    Wait a minute... does the DUP still get their £1 billion for doing absolutely sweet FA now that Maybot's Brexit deal is over?
     
  6. DarkHorizon472

    Mobster

    Joined: May 16, 2007

    Posts: 3,162

    Labour have never been a brexit party, the majority of their MP’s, members, voters and the trade unions support remain. The Labour brexit is at worst a very, very soft brexit plan. If Corbyn moved anywhere past this he would quickly be replaced as party leader. It would be like the brexit party suddenly supporting remain.
     
  7. chroniclard

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 23, 2014

    Posts: 13,429

    Location: Hertfordshire

    I am far from sure it would be much different, despite there being an apparent rise in the backing for remaining. Many people are either a) too entrenched in their views/feel they are heros sticking it to the evil EU or b) massive idiots.
     
  8. DarkHorizon472

    Mobster

    Joined: May 16, 2007

    Posts: 3,162

    Current polling is 60% remain, this is why the more extreme brexit supporters are desperate not to have another with endless betrayal, traitors, against the will of the people nonsense. The European elections will be a guide, if the Brexit Party + UKIP get below 52% their have lost ground since the referendum. Below 35% and they have been routed.
     
  9. mattyfez

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Apr 12, 2007

    Posts: 9,260

    Brexit (if it happens) is still undefined, it could be no deal or it could be the withdrawal agreement that the EU won't amend.

    Brexiteers are in checkmate, no matter how much they wail.
     
  10. Scrutinize

    Soldato

    Joined: Apr 4, 2003

    Posts: 7,340

    That's not correct though, the majority of labour constituencies many of which are strongly labour weighted and core territory, voted in support of Brexit.
     
  11. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 47,452

    Location: Plymouth

    But that doesn't mean that all or most labour supporters in those areas, voted leave.
     
  12. DarkHorizon472

    Mobster

    Joined: May 16, 2007

    Posts: 3,162

    The majority of Labour voters are against brexit, even using the approach you suggest since the referendum many have shifted from the brexit support. Granted since the brexit party appeared many brexit supporting labour voters switched to the brexit party reducing their numbers in labour still further.
     
  13. Murphy

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 2,745

    I'd disagree with that, leaver vs remain would really be the BP + UKIP + the Conservatives, Remain would be all the rest.

    Although it could be argued that Labour are also leave, IMO they are but the BP said they're not...the Conservatives are for leaving they've just made a right pigs ear of it.
     
  14. mattyfez

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Apr 12, 2007

    Posts: 9,260

    I was of the understanding it was paid in installments as long as they continued to do as they are told. I might be wrong. But they might have behaved long enough to get all the instalments, so the deal might be done and dusted now and they've got thier cash . I really don't know but they obviously stopped cooperating over the backstop issue.
     
  15. DarkHorizon472

    Mobster

    Joined: May 16, 2007

    Posts: 3,162

    I understand what you mean. My view is they are the only two parties clearly for brexit. The Conservatives keep voting against their own deal which to be fair gives the UK less control than being a member. Labour have voted down everything that looks like brexit even more often than the ERG.
     
  16. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 47,452

    Location: Plymouth

    Labour have voted against everything that looks like a brexit deal, and everything that can cancel brexit. Labour under corbyn have driven a no deal just as hard as the erg, they just did it in a way that allows useful idiots to convince themselves otherwise.

    There are only two ways to prevent no deal, accept the deal offered or revoke, refusal to do either of those things is to support no deal.
     
  17. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 3,618

    https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-and-support-for-public-vote-motion-difficult
    There is sadly only one way to do it democratically.
     
  18. RDM

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 1, 2007

    Posts: 20,211

    Corbyn whipped for a confirmatory public vote as an amendment to a bill that pretty much everyone knew wasn’t going to pass. Throughout the entire process Labour has tried to be both a leave and remain party. Are you honestly trying to say that Labour is the best chance of stopping Brexit? I would have thought that even the staunchest supporter would have gotten the message by now.
     
  19. garnett

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 25, 2008

    Posts: 4,972

    Brexiteers - "I'll happily pay the costs of Brexit."

    Also Brexiteers - "Ooo. Our Brexiteer champion Raab is going to reduce tax by 5%. I'll vote for that."

    So full of ****.
     
  20. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 3,618

    Are you kidding? Labour are the best chance for a second referendum. No other party not staunchly leave has any chance of being the largest party to form a government. So yes Labour is the best chance of stopping brexit.
     
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