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Brexit Discussion

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by FrenchTart, Sep 11, 2016.

  1. McstylisT

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Oct 8, 2008

    Posts: 1,743

    Location: ENGLAND !!

    We should be Britain first too. He will only agree if the terms suit him of course. But a strong trade deal with them that is healthy to us can only be a good thing.

    Look bigger. America will do many new things in the coming years. Putting itself first, as they should. They would be able to give us access to products, manufacturing etc.

    ** Edit **
    Lastly because the UK and US are friends. We have a historical bond and that should be celebrated.

    Not those cretin's from Europe. They hate us. they want to see us suffer. who needs people like that in life. WE DONT.
     
  2. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 62,160

    You mean like we already have/had?
     
  3. Harlequin

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 17, 2004

    Posts: 2,930

    Location: Eastbourne , East Sussex.


    So which part of the free market economy, the rule of law and rights of man and property do you consider to be wrong?
     
  4. McstylisT

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Oct 8, 2008

    Posts: 1,743

    Location: ENGLAND !!

    Speaking "trade wise" only then yes. But hang on, our close friends in the EU didn't want to offer a decent trade deal did they. ? How is that supporting a close ally. Its rubbish.
     
  5. FishFluff

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 7, 2003

    Posts: 4,934

    Location: Deepest, darkest Leeds

    None of that really addresses the key message in the video though. He’s right in the the US, China and India are going to be the next real powers and that only medium countries grouping together can stand up to them.

    The choice that the UK has is band together as part of a club where where we have significant influence, or get absolutely shafted by the bigger countries in future deals (see the USAs comments this week).

    I get that you hate Blair, I agree he’s a terrible person, but he’s not wrong in this video.
     
  6. garnett

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 25, 2008

    Posts: 4,014

    Oh look. You share the worldview of people who've convinced you to use their logical fallacies to ignore contrary evidence.

    Where did you learn that form of critical analysis?
     
  7. FTM

    Soldato

    Joined: Dec 10, 2003

    Posts: 5,930

    Location: South Shields

    because we are friends?? is that really what people are hoping for??? I think they are in for a shock...what exactly do people think AMERICA FIRST means? it means they will screw you over no matter who you are and they wont be giving out deals out the goodness of their hearts or because we are friends

    bear in mind he shafted Canada...the country it borders and does massive amounts of business with
     
  8. McstylisT

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Oct 8, 2008

    Posts: 1,743

    Location: ENGLAND !!

    The part that they write and push through EU parliament for us all to follow.

    I am not Against the trade deal. It is beneficial. But this ridiculous free movement that seems to tangle itself with a good trade deal. Trade is trade. If we can strike a free one with them, Super lets sign it. However they are so against us, so nasty and disrespectful to us. Who need's friends like that.
     
  9. Harlequin

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 17, 2004

    Posts: 2,930

    Location: Eastbourne , East Sussex.


    EU rules have nothing to do with liberalism and neither does free movement. Do you have any understanding on political science at all? It seems from your own reply, you don't.
     
  10. The_Abyss

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 15, 2007

    Posts: 11,272

    Location: Ipswich / Bodham


    We already have the single best trade deal in the EU. Free trade with our own currency and with a veto over negotiations. It is amazing.

    Why couldn't we lead the EU into a trade deal with the US, and get the best of both worlds?
     
  11. Harlequin

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 17, 2004

    Posts: 2,930

    Location: Eastbourne , East Sussex.


    TTIP - we tried, Bavaria veto`d it ;)
     
  12. Rilot

    Don

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 19,430

    Location: Wargrave, UK

    It's not going to be better than what we have currently with the EU though is it? Are the US really going to give us veto or voting rights over their product standards? I don't think so.
     
  13. The_Abyss

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 15, 2007

    Posts: 11,272

    Location: Ipswich / Bodham

    So we keep negotiating, rather than throw all the trade agreement and other rights toys out of the pram and march to the US thinking that we can do better.

    God forbid someone like Farage gets anywhere near a negotiating table - with this EU fisheries attendance record there's a greater than 95% chance he won't even turn up!
     
  14. The_Abyss

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 15, 2007

    Posts: 11,272

    Location: Ipswich / Bodham

    How can you guarantee that? We didn't even know where to start or what we wanted with the EU - what makes you think that we even know where to begin with what we want from the US? At the moment it seems to be the normal list of things we don't want - agricultural roars of 'hands off our NHS' and 'say no to chlorinated chicken'.

    If you're so confident about the deal with the US, what will be the key areas of focus and what will we want out of it?
     
  15. chrismscotland

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 16, 2009

    Posts: 2,188

    I'd love to have some of what your on, if anyone things the USA is going to do anything but screw us over then they're deluded, maybe under another President, just maybe we would be ok but Trump is all about winning and the appearance of winning.

    Personally I don't think we should be leaving the EU just to sell out to the Americans, we're no longer their closest friends (even under Obama's second term that was clear), we need to start facing reality that we're going to be a relatively small fish in a huge pond here, ironically enough leaving the EU will do huge damage to our main sector; Finance, an industry that already has pretty good access to the USA so have little to gain from any deall
     
  16. Harlequin

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 17, 2004

    Posts: 2,930

    Location: Eastbourne , East Sussex.


    Isn't that how negotiations work, come to an agreement after going back to your government(s) to work out the details? Also it really does seem lost that the WA is a temporary arrangement whilst the FTA is agreed , since TTIP was something like 6 years in the making before it fell over? On the news about an hour ago - an American journalist was stunned the UK wants to stop trad with its largest partner (the EU).
     
  17. Harlequin

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 17, 2004

    Posts: 2,930

    Location: Eastbourne , East Sussex.


    So along with no education on political science, you also have no education in economics, global politics or IR theory? But #BrexitmeansBrexit huh.
     
  18. McstylisT

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Oct 8, 2008

    Posts: 1,743

    Location: ENGLAND !!

    emmm, wally brain. I NEVER MENTIONED liberalism in my post you quoted. Are you feeling ok ?, do you feel like shouting me down. Do you feel the urge to spout fascist names at me at all.?

    Liberalism is a ideological infection. Spread through educational facilities/Liberals throughout the country. Its a drip drip drip feeding of "this is what you should think"." This is how you should react"." This is why you want to remain". "This is why immigration is good". drip drip drip.

    The only thing liberalism will do is break down society. It will break down individualism. Break down white nationals. Encourage LBGT and mixed race relationships. All until they get the manoeuvrable society they want to spread you around Europe like a lemming.

    Until you all become the problem. Its inevitable.

    All life should be celebrated, but with its individuality in tact. But I do not expect you to begin to see where it is heading and you are just a foot soldier for the people who want this ideology.
     
  19. matt100

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 31, 2004

    Posts: 11,147

    Location: Salisbury

    Way to miss the point...

    I mean as a casual observation "sensible" reasons to leave are hidden in the given reasons.. for example, we clearly have not gotten on well with the increasingly federalist direction, we clearly DO have issues with immigration (in the sense that it clearly irks a lot of the population I mean, not necessarily that it's an "issue" and either way for what it's worth before you all pile on I do see that those "issues" are generally speaking a lack of investment, not the fact there are "too many" of any particular nationality here plus we could likely have dealt with mass immigration much better etc etc), we're not great at being told what to do and we are a net contributor which some will find bothersome.

    Again for clarity I personally don't see much issue with a lot of this and where I do see issues I also see it being the best of the range of options.. ie non unicorn stuff.

    That said, as I've alluded to, if we'd gotten to June 24th 2016 and said "ok, message received, we're leaving the EU but we need to establish a citizens council of some description to find out how we stay close to our European friends and neighbours whilst addressing the democratically expressed views of our population" I think that would have been more stomachable, more achievable, more healing etc etc. There's no reason we couldn't have gotten down to something akin to a Norway or similar where we're kind of cherry picking in a more friendly way where we're trying to find a way to stay close but address some of those issues.

    I grant you that many are contradictory (such as customs, SM and immigration) but we would have stood a much greater chance of getting to a pragmatic solution if we'd set off to define where we agreed rather than where we were fundamentally opposed.

    So, longwinded answer but I think there are credible reasons to believe it's a good idea and credible ways to address that, honour the result and do so whilst not torpedoing the economy.

    And I'd add that telling someone they're wrong or stupid (which I accept I have also done!) is a sure fire way to get them to dig their heels in on anything regardless of what they believe. I'm sure we've all experienced times when we've lied or disagreed almost by reflex without even knowing why.. "you did XYZ" NO I DIDN'T! etc. when we feel under attack.

    So here we are.. now everyone who voted leave is a racist moron who wants to throw the country off the cliff regardless of the weight of evidence that that will hurt everyone.. and remainers are still and increasingly an anti brexit tribute act with no coherent view other than everyone who voted leave is wrong.

    What to do?!
     
  20. McstylisT

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Oct 8, 2008

    Posts: 1,743

    Location: ENGLAND !!

    DO you ??

    all those things you mentioned. ?

    You dont seem to realise that it is a way of life for the elite and they will say anything and everything to make you believe the world will collapse. It will not.